Wrong Way Forward
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Wrong Way Forward
42. Useless Advice from Someone Besides Us (Graduation Episode)
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This week on Wrong Way Forward, Katy and Justin tackle one of life's biggest milestones: graduation. Why are commencement speakers suddenly getting booed? Should graduation speeches focus on inspiration—or uncomfortable truths like AI and the future of work? And does anyone actually remember what was said once the caps hit the air?
The conversation also dives into the rise of "participation graduations," from third grade to eighth grade, and whether we've turned a meaningful rite of passage into a celebration for parents more than students.
Plus, Katy's niece Ann joins the show fresh off her high school graduation to share what today's graduates are really thinking about college, careers, AI, and why having your life perfectly planned at 18 may be the worst advice of all.
As always, we ask: What's the Wrong Way Forward?
🎓 Are graduation speeches still relevant?
🤖 Is AI changing the value of a college degree?
👎 Is booing a commencement speaker ever appropriate?
🎤 What advice do graduates actually need to hear?
Join the conversation in the comments—we'd love to hear what you remember (or don't remember) from your own graduation.
#WrongWayForward #Graduation #AI #College #Commencement #LifeAdvice #Podcast #CareerAdvice #FutureOfWork #PersonalGrowth
Graduation Speakers Get Booed
SpeakerShe's Katy Montgomery. He's Justin Joseph. These best friends are serving subpoenas to bad advice weekly with Wrong Way Forward. Now, here's Katy and Justin.
Speaker 7Hi, and welcome to Wrong Way Board. My name is Katy Montgomery, and I'm here with my best friend Justin Joseph. And today we're going to talk about graduation. It is that time of the year you are probably seeing on TV, on social media, also in all the newspapers, comments about graduation speeches. Is this good advice? But I think what's really fascinating this year, and something that really piqued our interest, is that we're starting to see that, you know, usually graduation speakers they're invited. Sometimes they're even chosen by the Stuarty. Um, there's a short list of people they'd like to invite. And this year, quite a few got booed. And so the question is, is this the wrong way forward? And why is this happening?
Speaker 4Yeah, and I don't think it's unusual for graduation speakers too. That's probably happened since the beginning of time. I think anymore in this political environment, et cetera, is happening more often. And then in addition to that, um, AI has been a big hot topic.
Speaker 7So, just I'm gonna tell you, I don't recall ever hearing graduation speakers bid. I'm sure that it has happened, but it seems like this year there's a montage of people getting bidded. And I wonder if is that the right way forward or the wrong way forward in order to express like freedom of speech, disagree. Sure. Right? Or is this a person who is there on invitation? Sure. They are a guest, they have been invited. And is it the appropriate forum to kind of register um a distaste, dislike, or a commentary about what's happening?
Speaker 4100%. So let's listen to an NBC News kind of overview, then we'll pick it up on the other side. This is from NBC News.
Speaker 7He's in end commencement speech time, but one phrase proving wildly unpopular. The rise artificial intelligence is the next industrial revolution.
Speaker 5I was just uh from a tech business executive to a music industry titan, AI clearly striking a sore spot.
Speaker 1AI is rewriting production as we sit here. Deal with it. Like I said, it's a tool.
Speaker 7At the University of Arizona, former Google CEO Eric Schmidt faced loud jeers on the topic.
Speaker 8The question is whether you will help shape artificial intelligence. We do not know.
Speaker 7This speaker choice was controversial from the get-go.
Speaker 4So you get an idea of it there. I mean, I think this year, especially because grads are feeling so much um sensitivity and anxiety about what's next for them, they don't want to hear the word AI.
Speaker 7Right. And I think some people would argue that that's the wrong way forward. It's here, and you it's without with it's outside your logus of control, you can't change it. And so rather than booing, go figure out how to make yourself, you know, marketable, how to make yourself, you know, um stand out. And is that, you know, a good use of time? Other people would say it is a commentary, and maybe the pressure and the collective voice of these students. I mean, one of those speakers was, I think, at either University of Arizona or Arizona State University. These are large graduating classes, these are very big schools. And so that is a significant, you know, kind of commentary on kind of what's happening. And I have to tell you, on this one on a tour, I don't know what whether it is the wrong way forward.
Speaker 4In terms of the booing or I think the booing.
Speaker 7Yeah um, you know, I don't think it is the wrong way forward for the speakers to address it. You know, I think it is relevant, and I think it is, if you think about a graduation speech as talking about the future and how to take a college education and to kind of adapt itself and to go on to the next steps of the journey. I don't think it was the wrong way forward for those speakers to address it. You know, they might not have addressed it the most clever way, and they might not have been reading the room and understanding most of these speakers, the three that you showed, my guess would be all or above the age, maybe even 55. So they probably cleared a lot of this AI gap, right?
Speaker 8Yeah.
Speaker 7And so I think probably where their wrong way forward was is that they did read the room and kind of understand the true audience. But I don't think it was the wrong way forward to mention it. Because I think if you are talking about the future and where your path is going to take you, they were saying you need to be highly aware of this and how you're going to adapt.
Speaker 4100%. And I think even just in our own real lives, AI is an ongoing discussion. And I'm sure in your career, certainly in my career, it's just at the forefront of what everybody's thinking. And so for these kids, especially who are wondering where their next job is, if you don't address it, then you're leaving something majorly unsaid that needs to be discussed.
Speaker 7Well, and I think it begs the question: is it hypocritical to boo at your college graduation when someone talks about AI and then literally go home and sign on to Claude or Chat GPT?
Speaker 4Yeah, and it needs to be discussed. It needs to be talked about. And I think that maybe that's the challenge for these speakers as to how do you approach it? And I think some of them try to to know available, how do you approach it in a way that that is hopeful? Yeah. Um, and it gives some optimism to these kids because that's ultimately what the point of the graduation speech is.
Speaker 7Yeah, and I think, you know, a bigger question, and we're gonna actually talk to my niece, who's a recent, you know, kind of high school graduate, is anybody actually listening to these speeches?
Speaker 8Yeah.
Speaker 7You know, is this actually really resonating? And why have we not, you know, kind of flipped it out on its head and said, what should graduations look like? It is a light of initiation. Sure. Because of that, it should have some history, some pomp and circumstance, some tradition. But is, you know, we have to adapt to AI. How about we adapt to maybe, you know, kind of shaking up
The Speeches We Actually Remember
Speaker 7what a college graduation looks like and what a speaker looks like.
Speaker 4Do you remember any of your the speeches from your graduation?
Speaker 7I don't remember anything. But you know, here's the thing that's gonna sound really kind of crazy. I gave the graduation speech in high school, and I gave the graduation speech in my my law school graduation. Um, and then in college, I probably was just hungover. And so I don't recall, but I was also so concerned with what I was saying, you know, that uh I was not at full attention.
Speaker 4I'll tell you one that I remember. It was not my graduation, I think it was my brother's uh undergraduate force graduation, and he validatory and gave a speech. And his story was so impactful that I haven't forgotten it this day. I'll I'll I won't do his it justice like he did. But he tells the story of um his roommate's cat. And he said this cat was basically just a mess. And he said every time the roommate would go home, the dad would be into something it shouldn't have been, and um and had a fascination, I guess, sea link fan. And so it kept up and got on the ceiling fan and da-da-da-da-da-da. And um, it got caught in the ceiling fan several times. Anyway, long story short, the cat ends up dying a ceiling fan. And um, he told the story about all the joy the cat brought throughout the life, but the point he makes at the end, which I just will not and he get the sort of way better than that, but is he said what I realized is that this cat brought so much joy to so many people, and he did it without ever hurrying any button. That was the point. It was a dumb cast story, and I thought that was such a beautiful Well, and that's the gift of storytelling, right?
Speaker 7Yeah. To kind of like, you know, surprise you or to be kind of on a on a quick turn. You know, our our the person who spoke in our college graduation was Richard Ford.
Speaker 8Okay.
Speaker 7Who is a pretty uh he is not a famous novelist like John Grisham. He is not a household name, but I I think he might want to pull it. He's really well regarded. And one of my guests for graduation was a um a an autographed book that my mom got for Richard Ford. And I think my about my his most famous book is Independence.
Speaker 8Nice.
Speaker 7This shows you how much of an impression Richard Ford made out being. I have a massive reading.
Speaker 8Huge books.
Speaker 7I read a ton of books. He was our graduation speaker. My mom gave me the book. It was autograph. I've never read a Richard Ford book.
Speaker 4All right, when we come back into this, we're gonna talk more about booing. Doll uh Trump was booed at Madison Square Garden, right or wrong ways forward. We'll talk about the other side. Plus, we're going to uh bring in an invited caller, Katy's niece, to talk about what she's seeing out there. She just graduated high school talker, also. So we'll be back right back on the other side.
Speaker 6You've been listening to Wrong Way Forward, where bad advice goes to die, and then gets resurrected just so we can roast it again.
Speaker 3If you're enjoying the chaos, hit like and subscribe and come back every Thursday for new episodes.
Speaker 6Have a new topic or some disastrously bad advice you want to dissect? Email wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmail.com. Include your contact info.
Speaker 3Now back to Wrong Way Forward.
SpeakerRoasting
Are Graduations For Kids Or Parents
Speakerthe worst advice ever. Welcome back to the Katy and Justin Podcast.
Speaker 4Welcome back to Wrong Way Forward, where this week we are talking about, um, I guess we're talking about graduation. It's the time of year when everybody's doing it. It's you know, it's what's funny about her is it's so important to the people who are going through it. I mean, would you I mean for all the times you've done it, it's it's a big deal.
Speaker 7So it's really interesting. We are going to talk to Ann Luckett, and she just graduated from high school, and none of us made it to the high school graduation, right? I think my parents, if they were still alive, who lived an hour away, would have made it, but I wasn't. What are your parents her parents? Her parents. I mean, but it's late school. I mean, that sounds so obnoxious because some people are like, that's you know, token. But it's interesting. I just went to Betty's third grade graduate. Uh-huh. And my friend just told me that her daughter graduated from eighth grade and it was two weeks of events before the high school graduation. I think this is the um the petting and the stroking of children to give them, you know, we are so proud of you for getting through third grade. Who gives around that? I mean, you are mandatory. It is mandatory to finish school after. I think it's also, like you said, it's not just for the people who are graduating, it is for the parents. So I went to Jenny's graduation and I was about 15 minutes early and I thought that was great. And I and I walked in and every single seat along the aisle, because the children walk up the aisle, you know, kind of the show cathedral. Every single seat and every single second seat along the aisle was taken by parents. And those parents got there literally at the crack of dawn to take a picture. And part of me is like, Katy, you don't have a child. It's a third grade graduation. There's a professional photographer who takes a picture when they get their diploma. Did you get a diploma in third grade? I did. No, I don't think so. And so part of me just thought, is this is this actually for the graduate or is it for the parents?
Speaker 4Yeah, third grade is silly. That doesn't make sense to me.
Speaker 7I could not agree more. And so I I do think that's there important. I don't think maybe it was because I knew at college graduation I was going on to law school. But to me, it wasn't the importance of receiving a college degree. I think it more was the lead up and us all having our parents there. And then y'all threw your fraternity through that big party at the Hogsbreath saloon afterward. And I just remember going with my grandparents and then just having a drink under all those bras hanging from the ceiling. Like that to me was graduating.
Speaker 4Yeah. Plus in the graduation in college as you realize that I mean it really is the start of your life. You're also saying goodbye to some very close friends because nobody lives in the same kind of high school where he lives down the street.
Speaker 7But it wasn't the actual ceremony. It was more of the feeling of closing that chapter that's more significant.
Speaker 4We said we before we uh and lock out of the line, we said we also would talk about just boos in general.
When Booing Counts As Free Speech
Speaker 4Um it it was very it made headlines this week. Donald Trump went to Mass Support Garden for the next game and he was booed. Do we think I don't this isn't about Donald Trump? Do we think I think booing a another team or opponent is okay? That's part of the game. Do you think booing a person is ever acceptable?
Speaker 7I I have to tell you, I am really, really torn this one. You know, living in DC, we've also seen JD Vance. Yeah. Sure. Right. I mean, part of part of me sees this as free speech. And again, it is a um forum where you can express displeasure. And I think particularly if you're highly frustrated and you're not going to take another vote for four years or you feel like it's out of your control, that might make you feel like you have a little bit of control and some way to make a, you know, a comment. And then there's part of me that it's like, what's the objective here?
Speaker 4What's the point?
Speaker 7Like we're at the Kennedy Center to watch a show. We are at the Madison Square Barn to watch the Knicks. Like the objective and why we're here and what came together. Um, and so I have to tell you, this is one that I really torn on, and maybe it's because I fear that if I had been in Madison Square Garney, or if I had been at the Kennedy Center, I might have gotten caught up with everyone and booths.
Speaker 4Yeah. I think Hathor is a lot of mood is because of the security wait time with bringing a president. I think it tripled it to they were there in line three hours. A lot of them didn't even move for political reasons. Some of them just were not happy that he was there.
Speaker 2Yeah. So all right, I guess we're talking to Ann Lockett. We're gonna ask her about her experience of graduation, and uh, we'll do that right on the other side. We'll be right back.
Speaker 3Thanks for streaming Wrong Way Forward, the weekly reminder that advice is usually free for a reason. We call out bad advice wherever it hides boardrooms, break rooms, and even book clubs.
Speaker 6Enjoying this dumpster fire, like, subscribe, and check back every Thursday for new episodes. Want us to roast your favorite piece of nonsense? Email us at wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmail.com. Be sure to include your contact info. We're not psychic, just judgmental. And now back to Wrong Way Forward.
SpeakerRoasting
A New Grad’s View From The Seats
Speakerthe worst advice ever. Welcome back to the Katy and Justin.
Speaker 4Hi, everybody. Welcome back to this week's episode of Wrong Way Forward, where we are talking about all things graduation. And we are lucky this week to have an invited guest, Ann Luckett, who's part of the Montgomery family.
Speaker 2And Ann Luckett, you just graduated this week. Tell us about it.
Speaker 5I did, yeah. Um, so I graduated about a month ago. It was really great. Um, it's kind of a bittersweet ending, but yeah, it's really exciting, and I'm excited for the next year. It's gonna be great.
Speaker 4Uh, what was memorable about the graduation? Was there anything? I mean, was it something you look forward to?
Speaker 5Yeah, so the all the people that did speeches, like all the student body presidents and um the Slutatorian and Alabatorian were some of my really close friends. So that was something really special to see. And my choir also sang the national.
Speaker 4Oh, how tall?
Speaker 5Sad and sweet, because that was my last time seeing with the choir. Um yeah, it was a it was a really special graduation. We have a pretty big class, especially for um a school in Mississippi. And so we got to do our graduation in the pavilion at Ole Miss, where they have like all the big basketball games and stuff. It was really great.
Speaker 4Let me ask you this. One of the things we talked about um before you joined was just the the were was there anything memorable or what were your takeaways from the valedictorian speech? Like what was their message?
Speaker 5You know, one of my one of my friends, she was a salutatorian, and she did a speech. The valedictorian did a speech, and he was he tried to make it like funny and stuff. It it kind of really takes that much away from it. My friend who was the saludatorian, he did a speech about um theater and how it like brought her out into becoming a new person, which is something we did theater together, and that was how we were really close friends. And um theater had been like something that it was really sweet to hear that speak in my high school career because theater had been like the most confidence boosing boosting thing for me that I had probably experienced through high school. So to hear her talk about that such a monumental experience for both of us was was really sweet. So I I really took a lot away from that.
Speaker 4What about did any I I doubt this happened, but did anybody get booed or did any part of the speech, was any part of the speech controversial?
Speaker 5No, there wasn't really any of that. All the all the speeches were very um, and I was even talking to like my parents after graduation, and we were all kind of like there was nothing really that memorable about the speeches. They were all just kind of like, you know, farewell speeches. They didn't have anything of like super valuable substance. And my mom was absolutely Val Victorian, so we were talking about and she was just telling us how like how it's just so much different.
AI Anxiety And The Trades Talk
Speaker 4What about anxiety? Like you're you're obviously it's a big step to graduate from high school. Um, you're going to college or no?
Speaker 8Yes.
Speaker 4Yes. I assumed you were. I just didn't want to put you on the spot. Um, so you've still got some time, but any anxieties, you know, everybody's talking about how AI, everybody's the assumption is people your age have a lot of anxiety because of AI and whether that's going to have an impact on the job market, et cetera. Are you thinking about any of that? Are your friends thinking about that?
Speaker 5I mean, yeah, I the valedictorian actually got accepted to um Sanford, and he's doing a program that is only only available at Sanford and it um an AI collaborative program where he actually designs AI. And um I talked to him a little bit about it, and he's like, he's just kind of skeptical, skeptical about it because he will be designing AI, but it's also one of those things where it's like once he designs it, how like how will that affect once he makes it, how will it affect his own career?
Speaker 4Sure. And then on that same note, are you finding that some of the that your gr your colleagues or um fellow students are more of them that you would expect doing some of the trades like being an electrician or learning how to be a plumber? Are you seeing people doing that as well because they don't want to waste the money at college, et cetera?
Speaker 5Or is I mean, I think definitely um since when I started high school, there weren't a lot of people that I knew going into like the like more blue-collar fields of like doing manual stuff like that. Um and there's a lot of people in my grade that have switched to that job choice. I think especially in Mississippi, those um those standards are pushed more. There's there's a class that's mandatory to take called polygrain career readiness. And it's kind of a class that emphasizes like what to do if you don't want to have a college education. And it in a way, it's beneficial, but in a way it kind of brings people towards going into like the workforce instead of school right away because it advertises jobs that are needed in Mississippi.
Speaker 4Right.
Speaker 5Um, so I think from the school, like from from the schools in general, those jobs are like that career choice of being pushed instead of going to college. Um but yeah, some of my friends have like AI is it's it's a thing that's talked about amongst all of my friends. Um like my best friend, he wants to be a pharmacist, like can she plan to go to pharmacy school after um he graduates from undergrad. And she's I mean, she worried about some of that stuff because you know, pharmacy is just like calculations and you know, things that could be done by a computer if it's needed. So yeah.
Speaker 7You know
Don’t Lock In Your Life Plan
Speaker 7what? And like it, you know, you know the title of our podcast is wrong way forward. And yeah, both Justin and I have a lot of friends whose first kids are going to college, you know, or they're kind of at this stage with their children. What is the wrong way forward for parents at this stage as you make the transition, right? You know, it's like, you know, you're gonna miss home and you're gonna miss your family, but you know, that's part of the growing up process is having the separation. What's some pieces of advice that you would give? Like, don't do this? What would be the wrong way forward as you're kind of going through these next few months of transition before you go to college or before your friends go to that kind of first real job? Like, are you saying directed towards students or parents? I mean, either way, any kind of advice or anything that you're seeing, like this is the wrong way forward, do not do this.
Speaker 5I mean, I think a really big a thing that I tried to do when I was first thinking about college and like a career in general. It's like you you don't know what you're like, I've changed my majors so many times before I've even to college. You don't you have no idea what the next four years is gonna look like for yourself. I don't think anybody should go into full or career being certain that that's what they want to do with their life, and having like a very adamant idea that you have the next four years of your life planned out because you don't, nobody does. Um and like a lot of my friends have like this very certain adamant idea about what they want to do. Um and it it just doesn't seem uh reasonable to me and it doesn't really seem like realistic. And I mean I tried to do that a lot, and I was since like I first started high school, I was adamant on going to Belmont, which is where I'm ending up. But I went through a very like daunting process of looking at other schools, and I wasn't a hundred percent dead set on Belmont towards the beginning of this year, and I just had completely second thoughts and anxieties about going to Belmont. And I in the end that's what I chose, but I don't think that I think that you should be able to doubt your choices.
Speaker 4Love that.
Speaker 7Explore other options because you know I mean you never know what's gonna work out and what's not gonna work out. I mean, spoken from the mouth of babes. That's that's brilliant. I wish I was that.
Speaker 4Yeah, that's great advice.
Speaker 7It really opened-minded. Well, Ann Luckett, thank you so much for joining us and happy graduation to you.
Speaker 4Happy graduation, Ann Luckett. We wish you the best and are excited for your future.
Speaker 7Thank you so much. Okay, and I'll talk to you soon. I'll see you in Maine. Okay, I love you. Thank you, Pile.
Thanks, Wrap Up, And Email Us
Speaker 4Well, we want to thank Ann Luckett for joining us all the way from I where is she's uh she's in Oxford, Mississippi. Oxford, Mississippi. So we want to thank her for joining us. We want to thank you all for watching and listening again.
Speaker 3Um, and we will see you on next week's episode of Wrong Way Forward.
Speaker 7See you then.
Speaker 3All right, that's a wrap on this week's episode of Wrong Way Forward. Remember, the only thing worse than taking bad advice is giving it.
Speaker 6If you've liked what you've heard, like, subscribe, or follow us wherever you stream podcasts. And if you've got a topic or need some advice, we'll probably regret giving, email us at wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmail.com.
Speaker 3Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Wrong Way Forward.
