Wrong Way Forward

9. Boo-Jee Behavior: Trick-or-Treat Takedown

• Katy Montgomery and Justin Joseph • Season 1 • Episode 9

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Description:
This week, Justin and Katy unpack a Dear Prudence letter that’s giving major “I already pay enough taxes” energy — a wealthy neighbor outraged that kids from other ZIP codes are trick-or-treating on her block. Justin insists Halloween should be about knowing your neighbors (and not your candy ROI), while Katy counters with empathy — and a few choice words about narcissism, Costco, and candy equity.

From there, the duo pivots to the Ryder Cup heckling fiasco, asking where fandom ends and public tackiness begins. Spoiler: if you’re throwing beer at golfers’ wives, you’ve already bogeyed your soul.

And finally, Justin poses a very on-brand legal question: Do I sue my dog breeder? Katy’s verdict may surprise you — but probably not the breeder’s lawyer.

It’s Halloween manners, sports madness, and emotional damage — all in one episode of Wrong Way Forward, where bad advice goes to die (and occasionally gets resurrected for laughs).

👉 Like, follow, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
 👉 Got a disastrously bad piece of advice you want them to dissect? Email wrongwayforwardpodcast@gmail.com
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Podcast Music licensed by Wrong Way Forward Podcast and courtesy  OneRepeat

Announcer:

She's Katy Montgomery. He's Justin Joseph. These best friends are serving subpoenas to bad advice weekly with Wrong Way Forward. The advice column reboot you never knew you needed. Sparks fly. And so does the Hilarity. Now, here's Katy and Justin.

Justin Joseph:

Hi, everybody, and welcome back to this week's episode of Wrong Way Forward. I'm Justin Joseph, along with my college best friend Katy Montgomery. And uh this week we're gonna tackle a lot of really interesting issues. Uh we've also had some fun talking last week and in the last couple of episodes about some things that drive us nuts as well as um some issues that give us sick. But Katy, we've gotten really good response in some of our last episodes. What do you think?

Katy Montgomery:

We have gotten great response, and we want to thank everyone for joining us. But I think what has been most interesting is our discussion of raw dogging. And if I had a dollar for every female that wrote me and said, I did not know that that is what raw dogging meant, I'm with you, Katy. I totally thought it was the viral travel trend. And I think what is interesting is it's made me think like, what is happening? Like, do two guys just talking and hanging out go, I raw dogged it last night. I mean, I just don't understand how this even happened and how half of the population didn't even know what it meant.

Justin Joseph:

And it's so funny because I literally had that same reaction when we talked about this initially. I thought it was insane that you didn't know what raw dogging meant, which as a male always has meant having sex without a condom.

Katy Montgomery:

But my point is that this was a group of men who needed to establish a term for it, were clearly talking about it, and then it sprinkled and it spread throughout the male community. So I just want to know what are men talking about? Because women don't talk like that.

Justin Joseph:

Well, most women don't. I agree with you. What's funny to me is I had the same experience being out there and people listening to the podcast. It's one of the top things that they're asking me about or talking about. And so I did a little bit of deeper dive. Did you know there were five stages of raw dogging?

Katy Montgomery:

Justin, I mean, this is this a family program? I mean, who's listening?

Justin Joseph:

Well, we're talking about five stages of raw dogging on the airplane, which is what you're doing.

Katy Montgomery:

Oh, okay.

Justin Joseph:

I uh read an article that a man uh he was a journalist, he's like, you know, I'm gonna try this because he too was aware of the trend and he called it, he he classified it into five different stages. And he basically said the first one is complete and under dread, and this is like he knew if he wasn't gonna be able to go to the bathroom on the plane, he couldn't drink coffee in the morning, and like everybody who travels, that's like the first thing they do. So stage zero was complete and under dread because he had to basically prepare himself not to go to the bathroom on the plane. Stage one was I spy with my little eye. He called it the coping mechanism. He said he observed everything in the plane around people with jeans, what we've talked about before, people who weren't dressed appropriately. Stage two was regretting everything. He's now in that idle time on the airplane where he's basically bored out of his mind and he starts revisiting all of his past life mistakes. And so he called this regretting everything. Stage three, reevaluating everything. He said he shifts from past regrets to present future priorities, like what he can do with getting married, all the things that he starts thinking about to plan going forward. Stage four, manifest and chill. He's now coming into a surprising calm, he said. And stage five is the countdown. This is when he knows the flight's about to land and he has survived raw dogging. So I thought that was a funny experience.

Katy Montgomery:

I mean, I well, it again created by men, pretty ridiculous. And I just want to say this reminds me a lot of those people who go on like the month-long fast and they lose like 10 pounds, and then as soon as the fast is over, they go to Burger King, McDonald's, and then run by Dairy Queen and they gain all the weight back. This is the same thing. Like he's as soon as he gets off the plane, he's gonna get a bourbon, a coffee, and a cheeseburger. Right. So what's the point?

Justin Joseph:

Yeah, exactly. And so anyway, it's fun to have revisited that today. What are we talking about, Katy?

Katy Montgomery:

Well, today, because this episode um conveniently falls very close to, I think it actually may be coming out on Thanksgiving, excuse me, Thanksgiving. I'm already one step ahead on Halloween. We're going to kind of break down some advice that Deer Prudence, as part of Slate magazine, um, gave in October 23rd, 2014. And so someone wrote in um about um a Halloween question, and so I'll just share that right now. Yeah, dear. So Dear Prudence. I live in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in the country, but on one of the more modest streets, mostly doctors and lawyers and family business owners. I've noticed that on Halloween, what seems like 75% of the trick-or-treaters are clearly not from this neighborhood. Kids arrive in overflowing cars from less fortunate areas. I feel like this is inappropriate. Halloween isn't a social service or a charity in which I have to buy candy for less fortunate children. Obviously, this makes me feel like a terrible person because what's the big deal about making less fortunate kids happy on a holiday? But it just bugs me because we already pay more than enough taxes towards actual social services. Should Halloween be a neighborhood activity or is it a legitimately free-for-all in which all people hunt down the best candy grounds for their kids? So she's pretty loaded here, um, and clearly not with enough candy for the kids in the neighborhood. And so Dear Prudence gives it to her and says, in the urban neighborhood where I used to live, families who were not from the immediate area would come in fairly large groups to trick-or-treat on our streets, which were safe, well lit, and full of people overstocked with candy. It was delightful to see little mermaid, spider-men, ghosts, and the occasional axe murder excitedly run up and down our front steps, having the time of their lives. So we'd spend an extra 20 bucks to make sure we had enough candy for kids who weren't as fortunate as ours. And there you are on the impoverished side of Greenwich or Beverly Hills with the other struggling lawyers, doctors, and business owners. Your wine makes me kind of wish people from the actual poor side of town come this year not with scary costumes, but with real pitchforks. Stop being callous and miserly and go to Costco, you cheapskate, and get enough candy to fill the bags of the kids who come one day a year to marvel at how the 1% live. And so I guess, Justin, you know, my first question on this is was this advice the wrong way forward?

Justin Joseph:

And I say yes. I say it's absolutely the wrong way forward. And I'll start that by telling a story. When I was young, you know, I've always had a creative side, and um I we lived in a neighborhood in Florida, and it was a very, very middle-class neighborhood. And um one of the things that I wanted to do is I turned our garage into a haunted house. And so Can I interrupt?

Katy Montgomery:

Justin also did that with his fraternity. And it was the most elaborate um undertaking ever that ever took place at Loyale University, New Orleans.

Justin Joseph:

And of course, I followed none of the rules in the day before that haunted house was supposed to open because it was funded by student government and we built it, we probably spent several tens of thousands of dollars building it out. And the day before we were supposed to open, the fire department shows up to shut us down because we weren't up to fire code.

Katy Montgomery:

Yeah, department stop you. Yeah, you just kept going. Okay, so go back to childhood, you're curious, you're creative, you're building the haunted house of your dreams in your parents' garage.

Justin Joseph:

In my parents' garage. And the thing I remember about it was is my parents firstly thought it was the most nuts idea ever, but they let me do it. And we won't it wasn't elaborate. We were probably putting sheets up for the walls and such like that. But six or seven of my best friends dressed up for Halloween. We manned the haunted house. And I remember when Halloween night came around, there was a line around the block to get into this thing because people had seen it being built. And so why I think Prudence's advice is the wrong way forward is because um, if you're going outside of your neighborhood just to get better candy, you're missing the point of Halloween. Halloween is about getting to know your neighbors, it's about knocking on the door of the person next door and saying trick or treat so that they recognize who their neighbor is and so that you can have an interaction with them. And so if it's only about getting the best candy, I think it's the wrong way forward. And my advice is that you stay in your neighborhood and get to know your neighbors.

Katy Montgomery:

So, I of course I'm gonna disagree with you. I think prudence gave really great advice, but did not give complete advice.

Justin Joseph:

Okay.

Katy Montgomery:

I think, first of all, she should tell this woman um, I think it's time for you to go to therapy and um explore things like um being a narcissist and being self-evolved and not being able, again, to read the room. The fact that this woman had this thought, actually drafted this letter, thought that there could be a potential that someone would take her side, knowing that it could potentially be published, she probably had to do an edit or two and then push the send button to mail this into um Dear Prudence. I think that there is a bigger takeaway here that it's not you're being a cheapskate and you're callous. It's more of what is basically wrong with you? That you think that there will be agreement on this. Um, and that most people agreement that yes, that that you should not be putting out extra candy for the children coming into your neighborhood. I think, I think if we asked, you know, 10 people, I think 9.5 would agree that just put out the extra candy. These are poor kids and you are highly privileged. And what's the sweat of running by Costco and getting the jumbo bag of candy?

Justin Joseph:

Yeah, I don't disagree with you at all that there should have been put extra candy put out. But do you disagree with me that Halloween should be about staying in your neighborhood and getting to know your neighbors?

Katy Montgomery:

I disagree because I think some children do not live in good neighbor neighbor neighborhoods. And I think it's not safe to go out. I don't think it's well lit. I think we are incredibly fortunate and we don't know what it's like to live in a neighborhood that doesn't have resources, um, that's median income is below level, that has a place where there's food deserts, where there might not even be access to buy candy and to share, and that a lot of people might be working hours that are not amenable to going trick-or-treating. I mean, a lot of people, you know, in lower income neighborhoods are probably working night shifts, late shifts. I mean, that's an assumption. And so I think again, it's a holiday to give children. And to give a personal story, um, you know, I lived in a nice neighborhood and the Pentecostals would come in. And so all I just remember is seeing girls with really long hair, no makeup, you know, house on the prairie dresses, and they would come out. And I mean, you couldn't miss them because they all looked exactly alike. I mean, they had hair down.

Justin Joseph:

Is this like an I don't know what a Pentecostal is? Is this like an Amish person?

Katy Montgomery:

No, it but it is a religious sect. I if I I'm if I think correctly, they they speak in tongues, but women are told no makeup, no slacks, they need to be very modest. Um, they're the ones that tend to kind of put their hair up in some kind of poof. I'm not really sure how that's executed. Um, but you could see them because they all looked alike. And I just remember as a kid thinking, thank God that they get this opportunity because they don't get to dress up. You know, everybody knows that like on Halloween, your parents let you take risks, you could wear extra makeup, you could dye your hair blue because it was a costume.

Justin Joseph:

You could dress slutty.

Katy Montgomery:

You could dress slutty. And here are these girls with like, you know, dresses down to their ankles, you know, some of them might have been wearing aprons. It almost looked like their hair was crimped when getting your hair crimped was not cool. And I'm like, if they can have this one night and get themselves some candy and run around in this neighborhood and not have to like, you know, go to church and eat a potluck, good for them. I, you know, and so it's like, what's the sweat of giving somebody one night?

Justin Joseph:

All right. Well, not surprisingly, we are going to disagree on this one. Um, coming up next, we're going to talk about a recent incident at the Ryder Cup. By now, you've probably heard about Rory McElroy, who was uh heckled and so was his wife at the Ryder Cup. And then in block C, if you can see behind me here, normally I don't have moving boxes out, but there's a box behind me that you may see. For those of you who are just listening to us and not um seeing us on YouTube, this is an actual moving box. It was something that was delivered to my house. And in block C, we're gonna talk about whether I should sue. So we'll be back right after this to talk about all that.

Katy Montgomery:

You've been listening to Wrong Way Forward, where bad advice goes to die and then gets resurrected, just so we can roast it again.

Justin Joseph:

That's right, Katy. Nobody's off limits, not the goers, not the influencers, and definitely not Oprah.

Katy Montgomery:

Sorry, Oprah.

Justin Joseph:

If you're enjoying the chaos, hit like and subscribe and come back every Thursday for new episodes.

Katy Montgomery:

Have a new topic or some disastrously bad advice you want to dissect, email wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmail.com. Include your contact info.

Justin Joseph:

Now back to Wrong Way Forward.

Speaker 00:

Roasting the worst advice ever. Welcome back to the Katy and Justin Podcast.

Katy Montgomery:

And we're back. And so we've just been talking about Halloween and some advice from the Slate Deerprudence column. And before we move on to the writer cup, which Justin teased, I just want to say two more things that I think are the wrong way forward and that we all need to be aware of this Halloween. Number one, do not give children toothbrushes and pens and pencils. We always had someone in our neighborhood who was a dentist. We had someone who also owned a car dealership, and it was the biggest letdown of all time to get a toothbrush, you know, with the dentist's name and phone number, you know, written on it.

Justin Joseph:

What do you consider good candy? Or what do you what should they be giving?

Katy Montgomery:

Well, first of all, there was only one or two neighbors in the neighborhood who gave full size, like full size. I mean, that was the massive jackpot. I don't expect that, but I would say a Reese's cup ranks pretty high for me. But a pen or a toothbrush is just don't participate. This is not an advertising marketing opportunity for you. So stick with the basics, stick with candy.

Justin Joseph:

What about money?

Katy Montgomery:

Have you ever gotten money at Halloween?

Justin Joseph:

Uh, I think, yeah, I can remember times going to a door and someone would pitch coins into our bags. I'm sure I don't have any idea how much money it was, but I mean, I guess that's lazy, but interesting.

Katy Montgomery:

Well, I I would think you would just need more than coins this day because I take my niece and nephew to 7-Eleven as a treat, and it's about $2 for handy. So we're no longer in the days of the nickel bubblegum. So if you're gonna do cash, it leads it needs to be paper. So, Justin, why don't you give us a little bit of background about um what recently happened with Roy McElroy at the Ryder Cup?

Justin Joseph:

Uh sure. And Katy, you're not a golfer, right?

Katy Montgomery:

No, I am not. But I like the idea of drinking and hanging out at golf clubs.

Justin Joseph:

Well, who doesn't? So, anyway, so at the recent Ryder Cup, um, for those of you who don't follow golf or golf or don't know much about it, basically the Ryder Cup is the one opportunity where anybody who's a member of the PGA, the Professionals Golf Association, they essentially split it into two teams. One of them is the USA team, and one of them is the European team. And so people who you may have followed all along the year at the various um major events um and rooted for them just because of the fact of who they were, they sort of split into two teams at the Ryder Cup and go against each other, USA versus European. So immediately it's setting up this um dichotomy where it's USA versus everyone else, right? And so you can imagine that this year the Ryder Cup was in was held in New York, um, and so uh in the outskirts of New York, and so uh it it the audience was very boisterous. And it, you know, everybody wore their USA gear. Um they were very proud of the country, all of that. That's a different discussion. But um, Rory McElroy, who has been, I would say, divisive. Um, on one hand, he is probably the most beloved golfer. On the other hand, he is one of the people that did not join. There was a there was a number of golfers who joined the Saudi Golf Association called the Live Event. Um, he did he took a stand on that and said he wasn't gonna do that. So he was sort of divisive. But in this case, he's also had some questionable issues with he's gone through some marriage issues, again, a different conversation. But in this case, he was playing in the Ryder Cup and he was on the European team and he ended up at a hole where he missed his putt. And so first and to start, the European team had outplayed the USA team from the beginning. And so Rory McElroy goes to a hole where for some reason he misses a putt and the crowd erupts, basically um heckling him for missing the putt. And, you know, in sporting events, and I should be very careful about timeout sporting events because it's not something I did a lot of, but in sporting events, heckling is part of the process, right? You know, if you're at a football game, you boo the other team if they make a bad play or something like that. Well, my argument here is that this the crowd took it too far. They were heckling him, screaming things about his going through his marriage issues. His wife was there with whom he's had these marriage issues. And at one point they threw a beer at her. And as an American, I was embarrassed, frankly.

Katy Montgomery:

And I agree, Justin. I think this was clearly the wrong way forward. Um, you know, it got to the point where I understand they had about 20 police officers just to keep people calm and at bay. And there was one point when Rory responded, but I think the idea is that he responded. He had just about had it. And what I think is we were the hosts. You know, this was held at Beth Page Black. The United States was hosting the Ryder Cup.

Justin Joseph:

Right.

Katy Montgomery:

And as the host, you should make feel people feel at home and feel comfortable and give them kind of, you know, access where you know they feel um, you know, at ease. And so I think this was incredibly horrible hosting. I think that um it's not in good sportsmanship. And I've talked to a few people who said, well, you know, Katy, if the USA goes over to Europe, they're sometimes hearing things like, you know, wanker and et cetera. And that again, you know, if I heard this once in my childhood, I heard it many a times. Two wrongs don't make a right, Katy. And if everybody's jumping off a bridge, are you gonna jump off too?

Justin Joseph:

Sure.

Katy Montgomery:

And I think what bothered me a lot about this is Heather McMahon, um, who was the MC um and is a comic, you know, was has been accused of leading this F U Rory chant.

Justin Joseph:

Right.

Katy Montgomery:

And I just think and using a curse word and an expletive in a public setting is completely tacky. It is very, very rude. And she's saying she didn't start, but what she did is even if she didn't start, she responded.

Justin Joseph:

She participated.

Katy Montgomery:

And when I think about people who are in roles of authority and leadership, this is when integrity really comes in. And I think that if you talk to some of the famous comics, they would say, that's lazy humor, right? For you to just pander to the crowd, that is not being curious and smart and holding your role and really talking about, you know, what is the comedic piece here? It's just pandering to a crowd, a crowd that got out of control. And she's a paid professional. And what I think is so interesting is I've heard about Heather McMahon quite a bit. She's originally from Atlanta, Georgia, but she went to Ole Miss. And as all of our listeners know, I'm from um Mississippi, and she was a DG.

Justin Joseph:

And um, I know DG is a delta gamma that's a sorority.

Katy Montgomery:

DG is a delta gamma sorority. And I can tell you, I know quite a few DGs, but particularly I know quite a few DGs from Ole Miss. And I would bet a million dollars that they find that behavior abhorrent and really the wrong way forward, and that that is not it, it was tacky, it was rude, it was again not, you know, it's classy with a K. It's classy with a K. And it was the wrong way forward.

Justin Joseph:

So let me ask you this: where's the line then? Because right, sporting events is one of the last uh things that as Americans, when I go to a football game, um, no matter what side of the aisle you're on and politics, you all are there to root for the same team. And that's part of the fun experience. So where's the line drawn between um cheering on your team and and having some fun booing the other team and taking that too far?

Katy Montgomery:

Well, I think, first of all, if anything becomes violent, so throwing a beer at his wife, Erica, I mean, that could be actionable, right? Um, and so I think anything where we're moving towards violence and altercation, anything that disrupts the peace, um, I think is clearly wrong way forward and has gotten to a point of kind of no return. I think using foul language, um, I think particularly in a public setting, particularly, I mean, I've heard this from quite a few of my friends, that it's kind of a rite of initiation to take their children to a pro football game. You know, they grew up going with their parents and they have said the level of drinking and cussing and foul language and potential fisticuffs, it's gotten to the point where some people don't want to take their kids until they've reached a certain level. And so again, we've lost that sense of just kind of youth and community. And I think, you know, last but not least, um, I think it's remembering that, you know, this is in good fun. So a go USA chant, I think is completely fine. But from what I understand, not being a golfer is there's certain decorum rules and there's certain rules in golf.

Justin Joseph:

And I was thinking golf more than most sports. Golf is kind of, I would say, the pinnacle of there are so many etiquette rules when you go out and play. And like for Josh, my husband just started playing golf and he's out there to run his mouth and have fun, and he talks from the beginning to the end. And we fight more in the golf course than it gets. I'm like, you're not allowed to do that. So golf is here with rules.

Katy Montgomery:

And my brother said, you know, I was kind of debriefing with him about this, and he said, you know, other players on the on team USA were helping Rory, you know, and like raising their arms and doing certain things to try to quiet the crowd because those are the norms. So I think this is the same thing is like you do not go, you know, to um, you know, Vogue's, you know, Met Gala, you know, dressed, well, maybe you do because it's the Met Gala and they're pushing fashion for it, but in a fur bikini, or you know, you don't go to, you know, the Oscars, you know, dressed in, you know, bicycling gear. There is certain decorum, and it's like, again, I'm gonna sound like a broken record, read the room. And these were people who weren't there to kind of celebrate, um, you know, which is so fantastic to celebrate athleticism, to competition, um, pride and country. Instead, it just really fell to crude, rude, and socially unacceptable behavior wrong way forward.

Justin Joseph:

And on that we agree. And so coming back on the other side of the break, we're going to talk about this moving box that's behind me and how it has prompted me to ask the question, and Katy does not know this story yet, so we'll all hear it on the other side. Do I sue? We'll be back on the other side of this break. Thanks for streaming Wrong Way Forward, the weekly reminder that advice is usually free for a reason. We call out bad advice wherever it hides boardrooms, break rooms, and even book clubs.

Katy Montgomery:

Enjoying this dumpster fire? Like, subscribe, and check back every Thursday for new episodes. Want us to roast your favorite piece of nonsense? Email us at wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmail.com. Be sure to include your contact info. We're not psychic, just judgmental. And now back to Wrong Way Forward.

Speaker 00:

Roasting the worst advice ever. Welcome back to the Katy and Justin.

Katy Montgomery:

And we're back. And um, Justin has kind of teased a question of should he sue? I'm terrified about what I'm about to hear. I never know what is gonna come out of his mouth, but I like to stay on my toes. So, Justin, I mean, are we gonna be litigious? Tell me all about it.

Justin Joseph:

All right. So, Katy and I, for those of you who don't know, we have a pre-production meeting where we talk about what we're gonna talk about in the episode and the different blocks. And so when we talked about this one, I said I have a question, do I sue? And so we did not talk about this. So you'll see over my shoulder here this large box. And this arrived at the house, um, I would say on Friday of last week. And so what it is is it is a box that is inside is a dog bed. And the reason there's a dog bed inside is because we are expecting a new puppy to be delivered um on November 15th. And we have plane flights to go out and pick up this puppy. Um, for those of you who don't know, I have a dog at home. She's a cocker spaniel. Um, she's very, very complicated. She's terrified of everything outside. Inside, she's an angel, but she just lives a very sheltered life, and we felt like she needed a friend.

Katy Montgomery:

And so she needs a friend so badly that when I'm there, all she wants to do is lick me.

Justin Joseph:

Which Katy hates. So, anyway, so we uh decided in consultation with our veterinarian, because she's really not friendly to their dogs, that we thought it would be a good idea to have a puppy introduced into the family so that Beckham, our dog, would have a friend and hopefully um make her happier. I feel like she's depressed, which I know it sounds strange for anybody who's not an animal lover. So, anyway, so we got on, we called our breeder, the person who we got Beckham from, and we um had actually sat through two breeding sessions with her where she bred her her dog, and um, we didn't get a puppy from them for one reason or the other. We wanted a female, et cetera, et cetera. So this time when she um when her dog got pregnant, she we were told we were at the top of the list. Um, the dogs were born on September 15th. She sent us the contract. We've got plane of plane arrangements to go out. And on Sunday morning, I wake up to a message from her to quote, please call her. And so I am calling her all day frantically because my fear is that something has happened to one of the puppies. And, you know, obviously that'd be upsetting for her because this is her livelihood. But also, we have been planning aka this box behind me to have this dog. So she finally calls me at seven o'clock that night, and this was her conversation. I'm so sorry, but you will not be getting a puppy from me. You're uh you're not on the list anymore. We bumped you off. I had someone come out of the woodwork. Um, she and she has three female puppies. She's basically said two people have come out of the woodwork.

Katy Montgomery:

And so um, I'm going to- I want to ask, she really said, I mean, first of all, she's not very bright if she wrote comes out of the woodwork. I mean, I think with I hope she wrote that was those are my words.

Justin Joseph:

She just said there there was someone who was building a house. She's been asking me out a puppy forever, and now she's emerged and she wants one of the dogs. My guess is is that because this breeder has had the dog, the father won Westminster last year, she's been offered a lot of money for these puppies. And the money that we are paying her, which is not a lot, um, she got a better offer. And so I told her it was unacceptable. And Monday morning I called our lawyer to discuss the very question we're talking about, which is do I sue over a dog being taken from us? Or is this just my emotional brain reacting?

Katy Montgomery:

Well, I mean, you have a contract, right? So, I mean, and it's a legitimate contract, correct? Your lawyers looked at it and said it it's legitimate and it would withstand scrutiny.

Justin Joseph:

I do. And I think it just brought me back to the question of like the some of the episodes we've had. You know, do you sit with your feelings? Do you go with your gut? Do you go, is there 90 seconds to happiness here? I mean, all of these things we've talked about before. Is this an emotional reaction to sue, or should I sue to enforce a contract?

Katy Montgomery:

So I mean, again, you were within your right, and and that person has broken the contract. With that being said, I would ask you a few questions, right? Is this where you want to spend your money? Is this where you want to spend your energy? Um, where is this on your list of priorities?

Justin Joseph:

Um, you know, or is this about me winning because that's who I am?

Katy Montgomery:

Correct. That could very much be it. How long will it take to come to a settlement? And if that settlement does not involve um you receiving a dog, you know, what is the point where you don't want the dog because they're of a certain age and you'd like to kind of introduce them? And we know that your dog is particular. To me, with all of that being said. It seems like the wrong way forward. It it doesn't seem like this is a battle that you might want to spend time and energy on. Um, but when you think about that, what's your reaction?

Justin Joseph:

Well, I you know, I I try and, you know, I realize how small in the world of people who are listening to us, how small of a problem this is. So let me just start by that. This is not a child, this is my animal. So I get that. So let me just frame the debate that way that I understand that this is a big deal for me. For those of you listening, this may sound relatively small. Um, but I had those same questions because Beckham is three years old and she is, you know, if we have to wait another year, there's a point where it's just going to be too hard to introduce a dog to the family. I've really struggled with the question: is this just about me winning? Frankly, that I feel like I don't know the answer to that. I think there's definitely a part of that. Um, you know, I I think what I said to my lawyer was, you know, I I guess we we may not get the dog, but I want this to hurt a little because I don't want her to do this to another family and she needs to learn a lesson, and there may be some some a takeaway from that.

Katy Montgomery:

Well, I think you need to stop and think, right? I love that you're like, she needs to learn her lesson. For her, she's probably gonna do an economic kind of evaluation of this. And so she might say, you know, and and people make decisions on a kind of complicated set of factors. And she might say, I will do it again at this price. If you think that probably one of her motives is that somebody has offered a premium price in order to have kind of convenience, and that's what the market bears, she's willing, you know, to take any cost associated with breaking a contract. And you're pursuing this and having it hurt a little bit. There is no definite outcome that she won't do this in the future. My guess is she clearly does not hold up her contracts and her word, doesn't mean her word. So the fact that you're trying to control something completely outside of your control, I think that's part of the question too.

Justin Joseph:

Yeah, that's that hits the nail on the head. I mean, it is about the fact that I hate not being able to control the situation. Yeah. Um, you know, the other thought was is that you know, we're fighting for a dog that we don't even know, but she that dog was a member of our family from the minute the breeder sent us pictures of the dog.

Katy Montgomery:

Right.

Justin Joseph:

That was a fact I should I've I should have included. We had pictures of the dog.

Katy Montgomery:

Yes, that does make you seem more human than than normal. So what does Josh think? I mean, this is this is also you're in a partnership and someone who will also be responsible for this animal. I mean, I think what he thinks carries quite a bit of weight.

Justin Joseph:

And you know him, he is the absolute least confrontational human being alive. And so he would have immediately surrendered and said, that's okay, well, but he's he's mad and he he he does think we should talk to a lawyer. So just a quick update. Um I wrote her that note on Monday. On Wednesday, I gave her till Wednesday to respond. On Wednesday, I said I haven't heard from you, and I said we plan on talking to the lawyer this afternoon and start accruing attorney's fees. And at that point, we are going to seek reimbursement. And she wrote me back and said, give me a break. Um, I've been busy. I'll let you know by Friday. And so we will have an answer tomorrow. And of course, we will keep our viewers updated. Love to know what anybody thinks. You can, of course, email us at the wrongwayforward podcast at gmail.com. But uh still struggling with this one, would love everybody's thoughts. The question, of course, is do I sue? And uh we'll have more updates as as our episodes roll on here.

Katy Montgomery:

I I I'm very interested to know too. And I do want to kind of make uh a plug um for our podcast. We have just absolutely loved doing this. And as of today, we're in 18 countries and 212 cities, and we keep growing. But what's most helpful is if you are enjoying our content, we'd love for you to click the follow button and to also leave us a review. Um, and we do appreciate all of y'all. And please, please, as Justin mentioned, please drop us a line because we'd love to hear about what terrible advice you're hearing so we can give our terrible take on it.

Justin Joseph:

And as a teaser for next week, we've started to get sponsorship offers because we've grown so much. And we can't share, believe, can't wait to share with what one of those sponsors who wants to be part of our program. You will not believe who this is. You will not believe we they want to be part of this program. We're gonna politely decline, and we'll share with you next week who they are on Wrong Way Forward. Thanks for listening, everybody. All right, that's a wrap on this week's episode of Wrong Way Forward. Remember, the only thing worse than taking bad advice is giving it.

Katy Montgomery:

If you've liked what you've heard, like, subscribe, or follow us wherever you stream podcasts. And if you've got a topic or need some advice, we'll probably regret giving, email us at wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmail.com.

Justin Joseph:

Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Wrong Way Forward.

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Justin Joseph

Host
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Katy Montgomery

Host