Wrong Way Forward

8. The Problem with Platitudes & What to Say Instead

• Katy Montgomery and Justin Joseph • Season 1 • Episode 8

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Episode: “Platitudes Are the Wrong Way Forward”
When life gets messy, why do we reach for lazy lines like “everything happens for a reason,” “it is what it is,” or “forgive and forget”? This week, Katy and Justin unpack why platitudes feel dismissive—and what to say instead when someone is grieving, stressed, or stuck. Katy shares the raw truth of losing her mom and the unhelpful clichés that followed; Justin opens up about a family loss and the comfort of honest, imperfect words. They dig into workplace versions of platitudes, offer practical swaps that show real empathy, and debate a wild etiquette dilemma involving an event manager with major nerve. Plus: a teaser on emotional support animals (ESAs), airport chaos, and why rules matter more than vibes.

 Send us the platitude you hate most: wrongwayforwardpodcast@gmail.com

Highlights / Takeaways

  • Why platitudes land as dismissal—and how to respond with empathy instead
  • Better alternatives to “call me if you need anything” and “what doesn’t kill you…”
  • Grief talk: what helped, what hurt
  • Workplace truth-telling > “it is what it is”
  • Teaser: ESA rules, airport standby drama, and reading the room

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Podcast Music licensed by Wrong Way Forward Podcast and courtesy  OneRepeat

Announcer:

He's Katy Montgomery. He's Justin Joseph. These best friends are serving subpoenas to bad advice weekly with Wrong Way Forward. The advice column reboot you never knew you needed. Sparks fly. And so does the Hilarity. Now, here's Katy and Justin.

Justin Joseph:

Hi, everybody, and welcome back to this week's episode of Wrong Way Forward. I'm Justin Joseph here along with Katy Montgomery. This week we're going to cover some things that I think no matter where you are in your life, these have touched you. Uh, we're talking, of course, today about platitudes. And Katy, you want to give us an idea of what some of the platitudes we're talking about?

Katy Montgomery:

So a platitude is generally this statement. Sometimes it has kind of a moral flavor to it, but it has become so overused and so basic that it's not considered very thoughtful. But a lot of us use platitudes when we are at a loss of words or where we can't find the language to appropriately convey what we're wanting to convey. And Justin and I think we're going to agree on this that we generally think that platitudes are the wrong way forward. And we're going to kind of walk through why that is.

Justin Joseph:

Exactly. And what's funny is I hope I'm not sharing something that's a private moment. My brother put his dog down yesterday and he and I were talking and he actually texted me and he said, you know, it's been an incredibly tough day. He said, but one of the things I think you all should talk about on your show is, and he didn't call them platitudes, but you know, these general statements that people tend to give anyone in that difficult situation. And, you know, for him, I think it was she's in a better place. And, you know, um, it was funny because I didn't want to say, oh, we're doing this episode tomorrow, but it is something that it touches so many people. And, you know, I think you're right on the money. It's a generalization that really lacks empathy. It doesn't really show you um truly feeling whatever that other person is going through.

Katy Montgomery:

Exactly. And I mean, not to be, you know, too morose is kind of staying on the topic of death. Um, you know, when I lost my mother, um, she was on a morning walk and was killed by um a driver under the influence. A lot of people said to me, um, well, everything happens for a reason, Katy. And to me, it was the complete wrong way forward because, you know, I would respond in anger and I would think, well, what the hell's the reason for this? The reason is that he got a good few five years in jail is the reason that um, you know, my mother's in a better place. That's another platitude that's not very helpful. And, you know, just to kind of a twist on that, I had a colleague who had um lost her mother a few years before I lost mine, and hers was also a shock. And instead, she said this to me, which I thought was much more helpful, is that you know what, the pain never goes away. It will always be there. But it's almost like, you know, a knife to the heart, but the the wound becomes a you know, becomes a little less, or in other words, the you know, the blade of the knife becomes a little duller. The pain is not so intense over time. And I found that much more comforting because it was personal, that it was something that I could relate to, and it didn't feel like it was being brushed off. It didn't feel like um it was just a passing comment, that platitude. And I thought that was the right way forward rather than the wrong way forward of um everything happens for a reason.

Justin Joseph:

Exactly. And you know, what's interesting is when you tell that story about your mom and someone said what they said, um, do you think that it's in some in some cases because people are so uncomfortable they don't know how to identify with your feelings?

Katy Montgomery:

I mean, I do, and I think, you know, particularly the work of like Stephen Colbert and Andrew Garfield, you've probably seen a number of the viral clips of talking about how to talk about death and how to show compassion and empathy and how to kind of understand what someone's going through. And I think it's one of the most uncomfortable topics. And when things are uncomfortable, we default to, you know, platitudes. I mean, I rarely see somebody using a platitude when um when they are, you know, not at a loss for words. I mean, when you're hearing, you know, people say something like, it is what it is, um, I probably would say that I heard that most often in a work context when I was outraged that something wasn't happening or we weren't fixing something, or there was an inefficiency that was obvious to everyone. And I would get a comment of, it is what it is, which for me just resonated as defeatist and lazy. Lazy Yeah, very lazy. But in reality, this was someone who was at a loss of words. And stepping out of that, my guess is that they probably agreed. They felt powerless, they were exhausted, they were overwhelmed, they had too many things on their plate, it wasn't a top priority, and so they became at a loss of words. So the way to just kind of move on was to tell me it is what it is, which again is the wrong way forward. And I think, Justin, this is something that I've heard over the last few episodes from you is like just tell the truth. The truth for me would have been like, Katy I agree. It's very frustrating. We can't fix this because lack of budget, lack of resources, lack of interest from the top. Um, it's just not a priority. I am having, they are riding my ass about A, B, and C, and I just can't do this now. That to me would have been a lot more easy to swallow than it is what it is.

Justin Joseph:

And let me ask you this. Sometimes in those situations, when you talk about telling the truth, sometimes the truth may be something that makes your listener or the person going through the experience even more uncomfortable. It may make you feel uncomfortable because you didn't say the right thing, but it had more empathy than a platitude does. Do you I'm trying to think of a situation where someone may have said something to you during your mom's situation that was so out of left field, but it had empathy and was not a platitude, right?

Katy Montgomery:

Right, right. I mean, I think again, handling anything with empathy, and I think, you know, just kind of listening. One of the platitudes now that we're talking that's coming to me that I'm feeling rather guilty about, um, but when someone does kind of experience a crisis or a trauma or a loss, you know, one of the platitudes, uh, you know, I don't know if this has been officially labeled one, if you were to Google top platitudes, but it's like, call me if you need anything, let me know if you need anything. And I now I'm using that as kind of a crutch because I want to be helpful. I don't know what they want, and I'm feeling rather embarrassed about it because I'm putting the onus on this person who is suffering to come up with something that I can do that makes me feel better. Um and so I think you know that is potentially the wrong way forward. And I think what we need to think is is how do we stop in the moment and recognize our feelings? I feel uncomfortable that I can't do something, I feel horrible that I don't have something to give or to alleviate their pain. And so that makes me feel uncomfortable. And so maybe the right way forward is pulling yourself out of the equation and being kind of more direct. I can do these following five things for you, and being a little bit more specific rather than using that default kind of crutch of let me know if you need anything.

Justin Joseph:

Agreed. And to add to that, I also think it's taking a moment before you engage in that situation to stop and say, um, how am I gonna handle this person's crisis, trauma, et cetera? What can I say to have empathy? And sometimes it may be as easy as saying, I don't know what to say, and telling that person, I don't know what to say here. Do you agree with that?

Katy Montgomery:

A hundred percent. And I think, you know, some of the stuff that I loved the most, and I think my family, you know, defaults a lot to humor and ridiculousness, is I have a really good friend um outside of Memphis, and she just is like, Well, this really sucks a big one. And I'm like, Yes, it does, yes, it does. It's just actually addressing the elephant in the room. It's like, can somebody just kind of say, you know, life's a bitch? And that to me was incredibly comforting, rather than people trying to kind of tiptoe around the horrendousness of it all.

Justin Joseph:

100%. Um, on the subject of that, I remember when I was in TV news and covering uh stories, and I had a really interesting tip. It was a bizarre tip. Um, I had good sources when I was in the news, and I remember getting a call the morning before the news meeting, and someone said, You need to come to Boulder. But if for those of you who don't know, Boulder is this sort of eccentric area of Denver, um, just to our northwest in the foothills. This is where Jean Bonet um was murdered. And so that's sort of been its um identity. It's an amazing town, it's got a great restaurant, etc. But I got a tip from someone who said, You need to come up to Boulder at the yoga fest of this festival this week. And a woman went into the portalette, and as she was going to the bathroom, she thought she heard something underneath her. And she looked in it, and a man had crawled into the portalette and had um basically covered himself in feces, and this was what turned him on. And so I know it's crazy.

Katy Montgomery:

I didn't know this is your literal living hell.

Justin Joseph:

Well, that's true too. Um, yeah, exactly. As I have to sit here and think about how I wrote that story.

Katy Montgomery:

But I've been cracking my brain about how we're getting to a platitude with this guy covered in unit.

Justin Joseph:

Oh, because as when the the woman was traumatized, needless to say, not just because she's sitting there fully exposed with her unit hanging out over this man. But um, you know, I I imagine that was in, and I'll speak for myself, in a moment of deep privacy in a portalette. You want to have that alone and not with someone underneath you. Anyway, I'm getting to platitudes because when this woman went to court at this man's sentencing, the judge gave her a platitude, something like, I forget what it was. It was something like, you know, everything happens for a reason or forgive and forget, or something like that. And I the moment I I remember it being an odd situation. And because the story was so specific and shocking, I I can remember really everything about it. But in that moment, the judge could have used empathy and in that same situation said something that was more meaningful than that.

Katy Montgomery:

Well, and and I mean, I think probably forgive and forget when I was thinking about platitudes. I'm like, Justin does not like that one.

Justin Joseph:

No, I mean it's it's definitely one of the harder ones for me personally, forgive and forget. I would say as I get older, it gets easier. Um, because in the end, what I have discovered in in times when I have been hurt deeply, um, holding on to that pain is carries way more weight than letting it go. And I I will say that's something I've learned as I've gotten older.

Katy Montgomery:

And and I'm as we're talking, I'm seeing kind of the one consistent kind of theme among all of these platitudes, things like, you know, um, don't take no for an answer, forgive and forget, um, you know, what kills you doesn't make you stronger. Um, it is what it is. And the feeling that it leaves the listener with is being dismissed. I just find all of these comments dismissive. Do you does that resonate with you, Justin?

Justin Joseph:

It resonates a hundred percent. And um, we're coming up against a break, so let's pick this up on the other side. I think what we agree on is platitudes. Uh, what doesn't kill you make you strong makes you stronger is good for a Kelly Clarkson song, but not good in everyday life. We'll pick that up on the other side.

Katy Montgomery:

You've been listening to Wrong Way Forward, where bad advice goes to die, and then gets resurrected just so we can roast it again.

Justin Joseph:

That's right, Katy. Nobody's off limits, not the goobers, not the influencers, and definitely not Oprah.

Katy Montgomery:

Sorry, Oprah.

Justin Joseph:

If you're enjoying the chaos, hit like and subscribe and come back every Thursday for new episodes.

Katy Montgomery:

Have a new topic or some disastrously bad advice you want to dissect? Email wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmail.com. Include your contact info.

Announcer:

Now back to Wrong Way Forward. Roasting the worst advice ever. Welcome back to the Katy and Justin Podcast.

Katy Montgomery:

And we're back. Um, so we've been talking about platitudes as being the wrong way forward. And Justin and I do agree that the reason that platitudes are the wrong way forward is because they are dismissive and no one likes to feel dismissed. Um, that makes you feel as though you have not been heard, you've not been recognized, you've not been seen. And that's a very um little feeling, and it's a feeling um where you might feel alone and you might feel that loneliness. And so we definitely believe that platitudes are the wrong way forward. And I want to kind of give an example. I had a friend who followed up on a story that I was actually part of after listening to the podcast. She's like, I think this is the wrong way forward, and it's gonna have an element of dismissal. So just justin, bear with me. Let me kind of give you the facts.

Justin Joseph:

Yeah, of course.

Katy Montgomery:

Um, so my friend was throwing um a Vopnitzvah for her daughter, um, and it was a big shebang, it was a big party, a great family and friend celebration. And my friend and I, who are very good friends with this friend who was hosting, we went in a day early to help her, you know, kind of do the last minute kind of setups and you know, all the things that happened with the party, all those details at the last minute. And so the three of us load up her SUV. We've got all of the prizes and the gifts and all of the things that the DJs are gonna use, kind of throwing out to the kids, all the party favors, you name it. The car was absolutely packed. And we drove to the venue and we arrive at the venue, and we are addressed by kind of the um venue director, maybe like the events manager. And we said, Oh, you know, we've got to unload these these packages, you know, all of these boxes. And it was it was quite a bit. And so he points to the corner, you know, and says, Oh, you know, here are some trolleys, you could use those, and then proceeded not to help us at all. And so here we are going to be.

Justin Joseph:

Just stood there and watched.

Katy Montgomery:

Yeah, just sat there and watched. Literally at one point, I think we got up to the door, and it was one of those kind of swinging doors that you couldn't hold open. And so we had, you know, one person pushing the cart, one person on the other side of the cart to make sure that the boxes didn't fall over. And we had absolutely no hands to open the door, and he just watched us as we tried to finagle with one foot trying to prop open a door, trying to kind of go around a corner and you can just see it in my head, yeah. Yes, and you know I was fuming.

Justin Joseph:

I'm just yes.

Katy Montgomery:

This is this is the wrong way forward. This is a tacky man. So I'm like, this is a tacky man. Number two, we are the customers. So where's the client service? Where's the support? And it's just from a marketing perspective, it's like you're not giving away kind of, you know, an image of quality, of helpfulness, of you know. And so we finally kind of get adjusted, we unpack everything. My friend and I, not the one who was hosting the event, she was busy engaging him, we're just in disbelief.

Justin Joseph:

Yeah. And let me just stop you there. From a plat-view standpoint, this man is exhibiting the same behaviors, lack of it, lack of empathy, laziness, um, you know, just an inability to see that you all were in need. Isn't that the same thing?

Katy Montgomery:

Exactly. And so, fast forward, the event is amazing. It's, you know, still top 10 events that I've gone to. It's fantastic. And um earlier this week, I get a text that says that my friend has been contacted by this events manager.

Justin Joseph:

The tacky man.

Katy Montgomery:

Tacky man, yes. Tacky Man says, I've recently gone through a divorce, and I'm wondering if you can set me up with any women. I think you're classy and spend time with classy women, and that's the type of woman I'm looking for.

Justin Joseph:

Oh, disgusting.

Katy Montgomery:

Yeah, agreed. So let's staple the record wrong way forward for this person, this tacky man not being able to read the room, because I can tell you, my friend and I, you know, we don't have poker faces. It was very clear that we were not pleased with the lack of aid. But, you know, not reading the room, but I would like to discuss, because my friend who received this text is very generous, very lovely, very helpful. Um, this is something, how what would be the right way forward in responding to him? You know, he's looking for a classy woman, Justin. And what would be the wrong way forward for this person to move forward?

Justin Joseph:

All right, before we answer, I have several questions. Was the was your friend who was texting you this man's desires, was she saying, Can you believe this, or was she saying, Are you interested?

Katy Montgomery:

No she was like, Can you believe this?

Justin Joseph:

Okay. So did she know the story about the man not helping?

Katy Montgomery:

Yes. She she observed it and then she heard the two of us complain about it all the way to lunch.

Justin Joseph:

Got it. So this text really was like, the man you hate, the tacky man, now would like to marry you and have your children.

Katy Montgomery:

I wouldn't say wants to marry me. He wants to marry a woman of my same ilk.

Justin Joseph:

And your same childbearing hips or something.

Katy Montgomery:

Now, mind you, I don't know if that's classy with a C or classy with a K. I would say, based on a very superficial um look, I would say he's more classy with a K. And I'd like to think that I'm classy with the C.

Justin Joseph:

So we're trying to decide what's the right way to tell him no.

Katy Montgomery:

Well, or no or any version of not yes.

Justin Joseph:

Of get away from me.

Katy Montgomery:

Just seriously, would you text back, get away from me?

Justin Joseph:

No, but uh a version of that. You know, I think we can apply the same strategies as when you're going into a conversation with someone where you're uncomfortable and you and you think, oh my gosh, I may use a platitude here. It's stop, take a moment, think through the situation. It's always your best strategy to tell the truth. And if you don't know what to say, you say, I don't know what to say. So in this case, I think that applying that same strategy, it's to tell the truth. Um, someone like me would not be with someone like you.

Katy Montgomery:

Justin. So I fear that her response is going to be this. It's so nice to hear from you. Thank you for reaching out. I don't have anyone in mind, but if I do, I'll reach out. What makes me nervous about that is it gives this man hope. And so hope's in the distance. Now, some people who don't kind of can't read a room and don't kind of understand the underlying message will think there's hope. And so I fear that if she does something like that that is nice, that is a way of saying no, but not a clear no, he's gonna keep that hope alive and might still keep reaching out to her. But I think your version is the wrong way forward. I think it's harsh. And I don't think that that would be a genuine response from my friend. I don't think she would feel comfortable using such harsh language.

Justin Joseph:

Okay, not surprisingly, I disagree with you here. I think there's some version of where we meld the two worlds. Number one, I agree we don't, I think the philosophy of do no harm is an important philosophy in life. But having said that, we also should make the world a better place. And telling this man that how he behaved with you all um has also has consequences. And the consequences are if he find found any of the of you all attractive, the consequence is that he will not be with you because of how he behaved. Now, how do we say that in a kind way? It would be like, I I ran your your your proposition by my friend, and she politely declines because someone like you would not date someone like her because she dates people who are kind and thoughtful and have manners, and she did not think you behave that way.

Katy Montgomery:

And I just don't know if I'd open up that can of whoop ass. I mean, this happened, you know, back in the late spring. It's you know, roughly six months later. You know, I don't know if he's gonna recall not helping. Um, you know, people tend to think of themselves in the best light.

Justin Joseph:

I mean, and this man has balls the size, let's just be honest, this man has balls the size of the universe because gross that he has he has the nerve. I'm getting fired up here. Gross that he has the nerve to sit and watch you do this, and I could just see you stumbling all over yourself.

Katy Montgomery:

Um Justin, I am very graceful. I was not stumbling, and I'm and I'm a hard work, so let's not paint the thing. But gross that he was that I couldn't lift a box. I'm actually, you know, I you know, I'm short, so I'm low to the ground. I got a lot of I got a lot of spray.

Justin Joseph:

But gross that he stood there and watched, and gross that six months later he thinks he can reach out and land land you.

Katy Montgomery:

That's I don't think it's me. He might have wanted to land my friend or other classy ladies.

Justin Joseph:

It just shows such a lack of self-awareness that he need uh let's let's shorten my response to him. Thank you, but the I'm trying to think, thank you, but how you behaved that day, or they want to date someone with manners, and they mentioned that you just stood around and watched them fall all over themselves. So they're not interested.

Katy Montgomery:

I think that I would write, thank you. I don't have any suggestions, but I'm wishing you the best of luck in your love life, or best of luck in, you know, as as you, you know, jo rejoin the dating pool. I think that's yeah.

Justin Joseph:

Let's let's send him back out so he can pray on someone else who doesn't need help. That's a great idea. All right, not surprisingly, we are disagreeing on how to handle this. Um, but we would invite your viewer comments. Katy, what's our email?

Katy Montgomery:

It is wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmail.com. And we would love to hear not just your comments on what we've been talking about today, but what is the worst advice you've heard or what is a platitude that drives you insane and why? Please drop us a line.

Justin Joseph:

And on that note, I have a friend who said you need to start putting poll questions at the end of all of these because I mean, I don't think it's surprising that people tend to agree with you more than me, but I have had some people that agree with me or the emails, but maybe we'll start doing poll questions. On the other side of the break, we're going to talk about airport behavior. We're going to talk about ESA animals and an incident that happened to me two days ago. And I went Katy to weigh in. We'll be right back after this. Thanks for streaming Wrong Way Forward, the weekly reminder that advice is usually free for a reason. We call out bad advice wherever it hides, boardrooms, break rooms, and even book clubs.

Katy Montgomery:

Enjoying this dumpster fire. Like, subscribe, and check back every Thursday for new episodes. Want us to roast your favorite piece of nonsense? Email us at wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmail.com. Be sure to include your contact info. We're not psychic, just judgmental. And now back to Wrong Way Forward.

Announcer:

Roasting the worst advice ever. Welcome back to the Katy and Justin.

Katy Montgomery:

And we're back. Um, so we are going to be talking about um emotional support animals. And what brought this to the forefront is I read an article in People magazine. It was um out on September 12th about a man who was denied at Walmart the right to bring in his emotional support alligator. And so, first of all, my first reaction was if you've been to a Walmart lately, they'll allow anything. So this must have been a very scary and dangerous animal. Um, Justin, where do you think this happened? When you hear the word alligator, what are you thinking?

Justin Joseph:

Uh Florida. That jumps to mind.

Katy Montgomery:

Well, this was in Pennsylvania.

Justin Joseph:

Oh, wow. Okay.

Katy Montgomery:

So a Walmart in Pennsylvania denied a man his emotional support alligator from entry. So that kind of led Justin and Justin and I kind of started talking about this. And there's some wild and crazy um emotional support animals out there. And it seems as though the standard for this and the regulation is pretty low bar. Um, Justin, what are your thoughts on emotional support animals?

Justin Joseph:

Well, you know, I must have a confession here. My old dog, God rest her soul, she was the sweetest dog ever. And we I had trouble leaving her at home. And so I can remember when I was probably seven years old, we were moving to Florida from Colorado, and our dog at the time, we were she we put her in a kennel, we're putting her under the plane, and we I remember it's one of my first plane trips, and I'm watching out the window. So is my dad from the seat behind me, as they load this dog onto the uh conveyor belt, and um they did it haphazardly, and the kennel tumbled off. My dad raised such a fit that they brought him, got him off the plane and brought him down to the tarmac, and this was on a United Airlines flight. Um, brought him down to the tarmac so that he could see the dog to make sure she was okay. That was traumatizing to me. So, from that moment, I said, My animal will never fly under a plane. We wouldn't put our children down there just because it's air conditioned near all the luggage. I just would never do that to an animal. So when I had my last dog who was just a sweetheart, and we would travel with her, she was an ESA animal. Now, those of you who may know me may think I need emotional support.

Katy Montgomery:

Katy 's probably in that camp, but um, you know, it's fairly I want to interrupt for a second because when I was in Denver with you and I was talking about anxiety, Justin looked at me and goes, I don't have that. I don't know a single person over the age of 50 who can, with a straight face, say, I just don't have that. So I actually I don't remember saying that, but that that may be. I mean, that's amazing. So I actually don't think you need an ESA, but it but this is what I'm gonna say is that you clearly were able to get one, even though you don't even have an anxiety issue.

Justin Joseph:

Yeah, and that's what I'm saying. Confession, I I did it because I I wanted to bring my dog and I would not put her under the the kennel. Now, um having said that, I have deep flight anxiety. You do know that about me.

Katy Montgomery:

Uh I do, but you told me once you realized you weren't gonna become famous and a millionaire, you have less panic about flying because if you go down, it's not that big of a life wasted.

Justin Joseph:

There was a version of well, it was not about being famous and millionaire, it was just as I get older, I'm like, whatever. It's it's you know, it's it's it's all the same thing. Heart attack, plane crash, it's over when it's over.

Katy Montgomery:

When I was young and I thought my platitude, that's a platitude.

Justin Joseph:

So stop and tell the truth. It's over when it's over, which really means um I don't want to die. Anyway, so anyway, so I've done that before. With my new dog, she is a terrorist. I would never endanger the public by bringing her on a plane because she would be embarrassing. So I see both sides of the coin. Um, having said that, if the airlines want to get around this, they need to come up with a policy that if you want to bring your dog on a plane, the same rules of my ESA. I had to get a letter from that, she had been fully trained. I had to get a letter from my doc from her vet saying she was not aggressive. Those same rules should allow you to bring a dog on a plane. Maybe you have to buy them a seat. I'm happy to do that. But we should be able to travel with our animals on a plane and not stick them under the cargo with our luggage.

Katy Montgomery:

So, Justin, I do want you to check this because I do think that maybe that airlines are no longer required to allow an ESA. So that might be a moving kind of regulation.

Justin Joseph:

I think they changed the rules.

Katy Montgomery:

They might have changed the rules. I'm not sure. I believe they did the last.

Justin Joseph:

Go ahead, sorry.

Katy Montgomery:

They did. I think what's interesting is it's an ESA animal versus a service animal are two totally different things. Like from what I understand, it's the standard for an ESA animal, it doesn't even have to be trained. Whereas if you have a seeing eye dog, you know, that has to be officially kind of trained and goes through kind of rigor and kind of certification. What I think is really the wrong way forward on this, and we know this is going to happen. I mean, every time I fly and I go through TSA, I'm like, there were a handful of people who ruined this for all of us, right?

Justin Joseph:

100%.

Katy Montgomery:

And it's the same thing with everything. But, you know, I was kind of reading online that somebody brought a peacock named Dexter on a United Airlines flight. Somebody in 2014 brought a pig on a flight that proceeded to poop in the aisle in the middle of the flight.

Justin Joseph:

Correct.

Katy Montgomery:

Someone said they spotted a turkey.

Justin Joseph:

In the peacock's defense, humans have done that as well.

Katy Montgomery:

Well, and particularly that creep who gets off on it's probably like hiding in the portified on the airline. You know, even somebody tried to take a turkey on, somebody's tried to take a mini horse on a plane. I mean, that's all ridiculous. And the one thing that this reminds me of is, you know, I don't remember anything from law school. But do you remember this, Justin? That in torts we learned, and I think the reason I remember this is because it was so obvious that if you possess a wild animal and that animal does something, you're subject to strict liability. Because the assumption is that a wild animal would, you know, not if there's quite a bit of risk involved. And so I'm like, who has the audacity? It is the wrong way forward. Who has the audacity to say, I'm going to take this animal on a flight that could be a potential risk to others, you know, that can make other people uncomfortable. Like, when do we sacrifice some of our own comfort for the comfort of the community?

Justin Joseph:

Yep. And I agree with you 100% on that. I think that's that is the right way forward. And as you said, some people have have ruined this for the rest of us. So I'm on board with that. Let me tell you about my recent airport incident. And this may be controversial. It also will not surprise you with my behavior, but I would like you to weigh in on this. Um I was at a conference for real estate this past weekend in Texas. Um the conference wrapped up on Monday, and um there was severe weather in Denver. I had a six o'clock flight coming back. There was severe weather. I knew in the morning that the planes, because I started getting alerts, the planes were going to be delayed. So I jumped on a standby for an earlier flight at four o'clock. Um, I am a United flyer, I fly them all the time. I have status with them, I have their credit card, I have all the things so that I can get on the planes when I need to get on the planes. So I was number one on the standby list at 8 a.m. that morning, probably ahead of 20, 25 other people. So I felt very good I was getting on the plane. The plane was full. So I get to the airport early, I get there at about two o'clock, and I'm sitting working next to the gate attendant. And about um an hour and a half before, someone in a wheelchair rolls up to the, to the, what do you call them? To the gate person, the customer service representative who is banging away on a getting very scared and very nervous, and we might get canceled. This is what I'm so I, of course, am sitting 10 feet from this, so I can hear the conversation. This man says, I sorry, I'm late. I got caught in whatever he got caught in. Um, and I hear the guy banging away on, you know how they bang away on their chips, and then they like change one word. He's and he says, Oh, no problem. I will take care of this for you, sir. The six o'clock flight, which was the flight I was originally on. Um, I you have a confirmed seat on that. But I'll put you on standby on the earlier flight. And what happened? I look up at the board and I am now number two on the list.

Katy Montgomery:

Yes.

Justin Joseph:

I had been number one all day, and this man rolls up in his wheelchair and suddenly I'm number two. So I he rolled away. And so I went up and I said, Excuse me, I have been number one on the standby list all day. I have priority status. Um, I noticed that this gentleman just came up and now I'm number two. And the to which the man says, Yes, he's in a wheelchair. And I went, hmm. I said, Is that your decision or is that the computer's decision? And he panicked and said, It's a computer's decision. I said, Okay. So I go back to my seat and I get on the phone with the priority customer line at United. Well, firstly, I Googled it and they do not, they meaning people in wheelchairs, just people with disabilities, do not just get upgraded to the top of the list because they're in a wheelchair. So I got on the phone with United, and and United was like, Yeah, that shouldn't have happened. And they gave me a confirmed seat because you know I was not pleased. Yes, but it upset me greatly that you know that I'm trying to I want to be kind here that he was given status because he was in a wheelchair. I just didn't think that was appropriate. Your thoughts. Well, you're like, and let's take us to break on that note.

Katy Montgomery:

Well, I think here's the thing this is the reason why you have standards and rules, right? And so I think the bigger issue here is that the gate agent did not follow what was considered protocol. And I think that protocol exists for a reason. And my guess with the size of an organization like United, and that is has compliance and lobbying and lawyers and marketing and you name it, I'm sure that there was quite a bit of thought put into this, right?

Justin Joseph:

Yeah, I agree.

Katy Montgomery:

So I I do agree. This person went around protocol. I think, you know, at the end of the day, I remember this from being a very young kid as you know, there was some kind of Tony Danza. It was like a PSA, and it was like, you know, you know, people with disabilities want to just be treated like everyone else. And so, you know, I, you know, I would think that, you know, probably most people would be like, you know, I I want to follow the protocol. However, I think people are going to kind of, you know, say, yeah, if I can get on an earlier flight, I can get on an earlier flight. I think unless I had something incredibly pressing, and I think this is where the sharp edges of me have dulled out with age, is that I'd be like, look, getting in two hours later, and you know, and this person, this is this is just not where I want to spend my energy. But I don't think what you did necessarily was wrong according to the regulations of the protocol.

Justin Joseph:

Okay, I love that. Uh and in this gentleman's defense, um, he didn't ask to be, he didn't say, put me at the top of the list. It was strictly the United person taking that on.

Katy Montgomery:

And so Yeah, and I think that's really interesting, right? Is that it would be interesting to talk to some people that that person was making all kinds of assumptions based on that person being in a wheelchair, right? That they needed to get in earlier, that they needed to have an accommodation, that they needed to have, you know, extra help. And I think there might be some people who are like, I don't need that. I want to be treated, you know, I want to have an accommodation to be able to have access, but I don't need to get, you know, special perks, you know, without a conversation and without my explicit request. That would just be interesting to explore and see.

Justin Joseph:

And in the way to wrap this session up, I guess the best I can do is forgive and forget. All right. Well, that's the end of this week's episode of Wrong Way Forward. Uh, coming up next week, we're going to talk about more things, more advice that we see as taking us in the wrong direction. But as always, we thank you guys for listening and watching.

Katy Montgomery:

And one more thing, we really do love each and every one of you who've been joining us. It really means so much to us. If you're enjoying our content, please subscribe and also feel free to give us a review. Um, we love to get the feedback and we do appreciate you.

Justin Joseph:

Bye, everybody.

Katy Montgomery:

Bye.

Justin Joseph:

All right, that's a wrap on this week's episode of Wrong Way Forward. Remember, the only thing worse than taking bad advice is giving it.

Katy Montgomery:

If you've liked what you've heard, like, subscribe, or follow us wherever you stream podcasts. And if you've got a topic or need some advice, we'll probably regret giving. Email us at wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmail.com.

Justin Joseph:

Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Wrong Way Forward.

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Justin Joseph

Host
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Katy Montgomery

Host