Wrong Way Forward

7. Friendship, Without the Guilt

• Katy Montgomery and Justin Joseph • Season 1 • Episode 7

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Friendships evolve — some flourish, some fade, and others need a graceful exit strategy. This week, Katy and Justin tackle advice on ending a friendship with “immense displeasure,” unpack the new vows of modern friendship, and debate when ghosting crosses the line from self-preservation to pure cowardice. Expect laughs, a few confessions, and at least one story involving a ghosting accountant and a very confused dog.

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Podcast Music licensed by Wrong Way Forward Podcast and courtesy  OneRepeat

Announcer:

He's Katy Montgomery. He's Justin Joseph. These best friends are serving subpoenas to bad advice weekly with Wrong Way Forward. The advice column reboot you never knew you needed. Sparks fly. And so does the Hilarity. Now, here's Katy and Justin.

Justin Joseph:

Hi, everybody, and welcome back to this week's episode of Wrong Way Forward. As you can see, this is the first week that Katy and I are broadcasting from our own studios. You can see my beautiful Wrong Way Forward sign here, and you can see Katy's. Katy, you want to point yours out just in case?

Katy Montgomery:

I mean, it's kind of tiny. I did that on my home printer. Um, it's an inkjet.

Justin Joseph:

Anyway, welcome back to the podcast. This week we're talking, taking on advice about friendships and sort of how you move in that world.

Katy Montgomery:

And I think what's really interesting is friendships evolve. We grow, we have experiences, we become different people as we age. And some friendships blossom, others might kind of fade away, and some kind of become renewed based on kind of a common set of experiences or values. And so I think the big question today is how long do we hold on to friendships and why?

Justin Joseph:

Absolutely. And I think that that's um really frames well what this uh advice column is about today. Uh, Katy, neither Katy nor myself have children. This advice column kind of tackles that and how a couple navigates a world where um their adult children have grown and they're friends with someone else who have young children and how they sort of move in that world. So without further ado, let's read the question this week. Uh it was a question to dear Abby, and the question reads like this Dear Abby, I want to end a relationship. My husband and I met a couple through mutual friends about three years ago. We are 20 years older than they are, and they live an hour away. When the mutual friends moved away, we thought they that would be the end of it. But the couple pursued a friendship and guilted us into making the long jury to hang with them, start uh stating that we were their only friends. I have raised children. I'm no longer interested in being around toddlers. My husband disagrees. He thinks we should thinks we should continue the charade to our immense displeasure. That's the question that she asked. And to which this person responded, Dear disconnection, I disagree with your husband. The problem with playing charades is that not all players are able to decode the pantomime. Save yourself a world of frustration in addition to the money you're spending, and tell the couple that it is time for them to make their own friends with other parents of young children in their community. Katy, right way or wrong way forward?

Katy Montgomery:

Um, right way and wrong way. So I think, first of all, um when I hear something about I have immense displeasure with a person, um, I'm like run for the hills. Life is too short. Um, these people are, you know, moving on, they have an empty nest. Why would you want to actively spend time, money, and energy on something that brings you immense displeasure? Um, so that's the first thing. But I think Abby is a little tough. I think her advice is the wrong way forward. And you don't have to, you know, school someone and be patronizing and say, go find your own friends. I think that's just a very nasty way to send a message. So I do think saying, you know what, we're kind of reshuffling our priorities. We're going to be spending time more in our space and where our children are away. And um I don't think we're going to be able to make it, you know, out for visits anytime soon.

Justin Joseph:

Okay. I um agree and disagree and to some to some extent. So, firstly, I think that this issue is not just about their children. I think this couple clearly does not like this friendship anymore. Um, you know, do you agree with that statement?

Katy Montgomery:

I do agree. And I think what is interesting is, you know, this person is trying to project back onto this couple. They're like, she guilted us or they guilted us. And I'm like, you are a free, competent, you know, this under dress adult. Um, and if you feel guilty, that's on you. Um, and so I think what's interesting is she's clearly having some emotional turmoil about this. It's gonna be a very awkward conversation. And so what she's trying to do is steal herself and give herself um some reason. And so it's easy to go into kind of that person's a bad person, they guilted me. Therefore, it's gonna be easier for me to do this awkward and difficult thing.

Justin Joseph:

Agreed. And I think it's disingenuous for at least I'll speak for myself, to say that of course there are times when I have friends and they have children. And, you know, that does automatically create some distance because I don't have children. They, I think, carry some parents' guilt that they don't like bringing their children around me because they think their children either will misbehave or annoy me. And that could not be further from the truth. On the flip side, I also, you know, I think it's fair if I don't want to be around their children all the time. Um, but I do think, you know, I was thinking about it this morning. When you get married, you take the vows of marriage, right? For richer or poor until death to us part and sickness and the health. I think two or three, two of three of those apply to friendships. Richer or poor, you're still friends. Uh and sickness and health, you're it you're still friends. Till death to us part does not uh come into the friendship vow. But to if you have children, I think does. I think it's a fourth vow that needs to be added in.

Katy Montgomery:

Well, and I do think friendships can have a lifetime. Um, and I think some of that is the duration of your life, and they are lifelong friends, and you continue to have things in common. And rather than displeasure, they bring you joy and delight. And I think some people not so much. And, you know, and I have some friends that were, you know, we were joined at the hip and we still have a relationship, but I would consider as now more acquaintances. We live in different places, we took different career paths, we might have stayed local versus kind of um had, you know, moved kind of more globally, and we just have kind of different interests. I mean, I am such a drastically different person than I was in high school. I mean, my politics have completely changed. My life experiences have changed. Um, and one of those things that has drastically changed is that I do not have children. So even though I take great delight in my friends' kids and I find that so interesting, you know, we're at that time in our life where people are, you know, taking their kids and moving them into college and they're going in for parents' weekend. And what I'm finding is some of my kind of common friends connecting even more so because they share that in common, where I'm not going to be at a parent's day this, you know, this fall. And so that's okay. And I think it is okay for you know for friendships to have different seasons and to kind of ebb and flow. And I don't think that there should be guilt involved in that. And I also don't think um that people should pressure, you know, and also I kind of want to say to this couple, not the couple who wants to kind of cease the friendship, but the other couple is read the write. I mean, again, emotional contagion. I I'm I sound like a broken record, but I am sure that this elder couple is sending out some very clear signals of nothing. And if they're not, they should be.

Justin Joseph:

If not, they should be, right?

Katy Montgomery:

Well, I mean, you just can't hide immense displeasure. I mean, we're not trades here. I mean, we're we're up for an Oscar in this case. I mean, what the hell?

Justin Joseph:

No, I totally agree. And, you know, I'm sure the signs have been said, and it makes me sad for this couple with children because, like you said, if they're not seeing it, they should be. And I don't want to say they're a sad case, but that's kind of what it feels like.

Katy Montgomery:

But Justin, if if if you were to advise the older couple about how to kind of, you know, cease the friendship or to at least kind of put it, you know, you know, um, slow it down quite a bit, what would you, what kind of advice would you give them? Because we are going to talk a lot later about ghosting. And we're gonna talk about ghosting more in the professional context. But ghosting, we I think we both agree is not kind. And so they can't just completely ignore these people. But what's a way to do this in a kind, generous, lovely way?

Justin Joseph:

Well, I personally I cannot believe you're asking me this because I, you know, I'm literally the king of being aggressive.

Katy Montgomery:

I'm a little shocked too.

Justin Joseph:

I'm the king of being aggressive, especially, and this is gonna sound um bad, especially if I don't know the person. And we've, you know, if you listen to our podcast, there are specific examples of where I have no problem taking someone on if I don't know you. But, you know, we're all going through this, and and I'll speak for myself, going through this in my own life with you know, certain groups of friends where we don't share the same experiences. We haven't um had the same connections. And it's like, how do you grow apart without being um unkind? I think is what you're asking. And my passive aggressive side says you just let the friendship, you know, kind of fade. Um, Josh, my husband, has a different he doesn't let anybody go. And so he would hang on and text and and keep pushing to maintain the friendship. And I'm like, let the friendship go. It's died. And so I think if you're asking, do you have to actually take that on and say we're no longer friends? I'm not of that school necessarily because I think the kind thing to do is to kind of let it fade. But similarly, if the friend, if they're not getting the message, then you know, I think it it may be worth a conversation, a tough conversation, but a conversation nevertheless.

Katy Montgomery:

And I think also, I think a piece of advice that Abby forgot is we have a husband and wife who are on two sides of the coin on this. The wife is like, let's dump them tomorrow. And then the husband's like, keep your mouth shut, let's just keep playing along. So I think a piece of advice that Abby missed out is you and the husband need to get on the same page. Because when you are a couple and you have couple friends, you know, sometimes you know, people can pair off. And so we need to make sure that, you know, we're on the same course of action. But I think that that would be a first good step as they move forward in possibly ceasing this friendship.

Justin Joseph:

And I thought another good example is when you came in to visit me. I mean, a dog is not a child, and you're deathly allergic to dogs, but you really don't want to be around dogs, and that's my child. If you're seeing a fly around my head, I'm not Mike Pence. It literally, it's we've been on this podcast for an hour, and suddenly this fly cannot get off my face. So, anyway, um, back to the what I was talking about originally. You don't like to be around dogs, and like the dog is my child. So, in many cases, this is kind of what you were in the in the middle of the last time you were with me.

Katy Montgomery:

Well, I mean, but I have to tell you, we're very, very good friends. In fact, we're best friends. And so I did say your dog was cute. I let the dog sit next to me. I would say, Hey, doggie, hey, in the morning, but I drew the line when it wanted to lick me. And I think that's fair. I think we have an open enough friendship to say your child cannot lick me. That's just not appropriate.

Justin Joseph:

I totally agree. And I think it's a great example because again, what I think, you know, for my girlfriends who have children or my guy friends who have children, I make the effort, um, however uncomfortable, and I'm not uncomfortable at all around that, but they maybe they think I am. But I think the important thing is you make the effort because that's what you do for friends.

Katy Montgomery:

And the effort goes both ways. I mean, I'm really curious about my friends' kids. I ask about them, how they're doing. You know, I know certain kind of factoids about them. If they started a new school, are they involved with a certain activity? But also, I think that good friendships, people seem to be kind of self-aware. It's not necessarily my cup of tea for us to spend our entire time together doing a deep dive into your kids. Relationships go both ways. And so it might be a question that might be, Katy, how's the podcast going? So I think, again, the idea is relationships are give and take, and really good ones are honest and open, and they're very attuned to what's happening in the other person's life and what's going around, and it's picking up. And I want to just state for all of the um listeners out there, because my brother says I'm a horrible person because I don't like dogs, and you know, I want all of our listeners to like me more than they like you. And I'm afraid you just got a head start there, is that I do have asthma and I am allergic. I don't dislike dogs because they are dogs. I dislike being unable to breathe. Um, and so I just want to, you know, state that for the record.

Justin Joseph:

Absolutely. So on the other side of the break, let's do our takeaways. For me, it's gonna be let's come up with our new vows of friendship for everybody who's not married out there. So let's do our vows of friendship, what our big ones are, and then we'll take your emails on the other side. We will be right back with Wrong Way Forward after this.

Katy Montgomery:

You've been listening to Wrong Way Forward, where bad advice goes to die, and then gets resurrected just so we can roast it again.

Justin Joseph:

That's right, Katy. Nobody's off limits, not the gurus, not the influencers, and definitely not Oprah.

Katy Montgomery:

Sorry, Oprah.

Justin Joseph:

If you're enjoying the chaos, hit like and subscribe and come back every Thursday for new episodes.

Katy Montgomery:

Have a new topic or some disastrously bad advice you want to dissect? Email wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmail.com. Include your contact info.

Announcer:

Now back to Wrong Way Forward. Roasting the worst advice ever. Welcome back to the Katy and Justin Podcast.

Katy Montgomery:

And we're back with Wrong Way Forward. And I think Justin had a few vows of friendship. If you could just repeat those for our listeners.

Justin Joseph:

Yeah, we were talking in the last block about how the vows of friendship very closely mirror the vows of marriage in sickness and in health. We're best friends. Richer or poorer, we're best friends. Um, death to us part, no, we're not necessarily best friends. Friendships may have a lifetime. And to that, I would add, whether you have children or not, we're best friends. Katy, what about you? Any other vows of friendship you want to add?

Katy Montgomery:

I would add you must keep me incredibly entertained and keep me laughing. And if I experience immense displeasure, the vow is broken.

Justin Joseph:

And by the way, that would apply for marriage as well. So maybe we need to have this. Correct.

Katy Montgomery:

I mean, again, 51 and single.

Justin Joseph:

All right. So on our last episode of Wrong Way Forward, we were taking on the advice of Tony Robbins. And Katie, do you want to do you want to highlight what we thought was bad advice there?

Katy Montgomery:

So Tony Robbins came out and said, you know, basically, you know, people have had horrible things happen in their life and they've been able to come out on the other side and be happy individuals, which we don't disagree with. But he said that the way that he manages that is he gives himself 90 seconds to refocus on happiness. And I think both of us were like, well, that's kind of ridiculous. Emotions are intense, trauma can happen, there's certain stages of grief. And so we've got some um viewer comments based on kind of what our reaction was to Tony Robbins' advice the wrong way forward. And so, Justin, would you like to read um something that you heard from one of your listeners, which I know you're gonna share something that is incredibly flattering for you and probably embarrassing for me.

Justin Joseph:

Well, surprisingly, these this week's emails are not necessarily as critical as you because I think to some degree we agree, we agreed that Tony Roman's advice was the wrong way forward. So they weren't necessarily as mean as they have been in the past, but here's a few of them. Katy, I loved that you called out Tony's fake energy spot on, but I think you actually sold yourself short. You clearly saw through him, but Justin went a little deeper on why his 90-second rule is harmful. Next time, don't be afraid to go further. Your insights are just as sharp.

Katy Montgomery:

Um I thought that was a nice one. That was great, but um, I've got a few that to share too.

Justin Joseph:

Um you're gonna go mean.

Katy Montgomery:

I mean, I mean, we'll see. Um and so it says, Justin, you said Tony Robbins' high energy turns you off because it's not authentic. But if you listen to the show, Katy has a lot of energy. She's passionate, uses strong language, and is very vocal about her opinions. How is her energy different from Tony Robbins in a way that makes her authentic and his fake? Oh, that's I just want to state I agree, Tony Robbins is fake. I just love this because I think this reader thinks I'm a little fantastic.

Justin Joseph:

I I just I agree, and I also would say it's a real simple answer to that. Katy's energy is authentic, and I don't think Tony Robbins is. He's put on for camera. So that viewer, I or uh listener, I agree with you a hundred percent. That's my answer to that. All right, dear Justin and Katy, I love the episode, but Katy, I feel like you were hedging. You said Tony felt creepy and inauthentic. 100% agree, she says. But then you still gave the advice that more credit than it deserved. Justin cut straight through the nonsense. And that's why I'm I'm on Team Justin on this one. And I loved this from Maya L. Um, I agree. I thought that um, you know, as not surprisingly, I think that uh I went straight to the point. He's I'm not a fan of Tony Robbins. I think to spout out a get over it in 90 second rules is as silly as to say you're gonna end a friendship because somebody else has children and you don't. So absolutely agree with this uh listener. And yeah, I'm on team Maya.

Katy Montgomery:

Okay, well, I have Mary Ann from Phoenix, and she says, Katy brought up the five stages of grief, which is a well-established psychological concept. Justin, on the other hand, talked about being on the couch for a week over a lost real estate listing. How do you think Katy's approach to dealing with real trauma is a lot more thoughtful and valid than your mourn it and move on attitude?

Justin Joseph:

And you agree or disagree with this listener?

Katy Montgomery:

I mean, I I mean, I I agree with the listener.

Justin Joseph:

Well, I would say if you knew me, you would understand why I'm on the couch for a week if I lose a real estate deal. That does just apply in real estate. That could apply in any form, anything in which there's a competitive aspect. Right now, I'm in a fantasy football league. I almost lost a game the other night. That would have been two weeks on the couch. So it's not just about money, it's about winning and losing, and that's just who I am, listener.

Katy Montgomery:

Well, I love that you give um basically your livelihood one week, but you give a fantasy football game, which is a series of points. I mean, this is like one of many two weeks. So I think we might get some listener comments next week about kind of like um rationality and proportionality.

Justin Joseph:

Well, like I said, that's just that's just part of who I am. Do you think you're competitive, Katy?

Katy Montgomery:

I know you are, but I am competitive. I can tell you that as I age, I feel like what I'm competitive about um really is is is not as much. And I think also it aligns more with my values and where I want to spend my energy. Um, so having kind of been in a lot of different situations um and maybe kind of going 90 to nothing on a lot of things, I now am really trying to be like, what's most important, what matters the most in my life, and then really doubling down on those things. But I think if you have a competitive spirit, it really never goes away. And anytime I'm with my niece and my nephew, I will do a lap in the pool and beat them every time and talk about it all evening long.

Justin Joseph:

Do you let them win at games?

Katy Montgomery:

No. Do you let your nieces and nephews win at games?

Justin Joseph:

Hell no.

Katy Montgomery:

I mean, my parents never let me win a single thing, and my dad, God bless his soul, we would be like, Who's the smartest in the family? And he would never ever even just take a breath. And he would say, I am, hands down, no question.

Justin Joseph:

I am meaning him or meaning you.

Katy Montgomery:

No, he. He was the smartest. So I come from competitive people, so it comes naturally.

Justin Joseph:

Yeah, it does. And I think that's what's interesting is your career path has not necessarily been a win-lose career path, whereas that's literally the careers I've chosen as a prosecutor, either won or lost a case. As an important reporter, I either got the story or I got beat. And I can count on the number of uh on my one hand the number of times I got beat because I did not get beat on stories. It just would that I would be on the couch for a month.

Katy Montgomery:

Yeah, well, I was about to say, so your career has been, you know, win or lose. And and it seems like you've either been on the couch or out celebrating.

Justin Joseph:

Yeah, and maybe that's a therapy session on its own, not for the wrong way forward podcast, however. So when we come back, we're gonna talk about ghosting, Katy. Give us an idea of what that's gonna look like.

Katy Montgomery:

So we're gonna talk about ghosting, and I think probably when people think about ghosting, they think about dating someone, going back and forth, hanging out with someone, and then one day they just disappear. Poof, they're gone. Um, I think what I'd like to kind of focus on is about ghosting in the professional context and why that is happening. Is that appropriate, or is it really the wrong way forward? We'll be back.

Justin Joseph:

Thanks for streaming Wrong Way Forward, the weekly reminder that advice is usually free for a reason. We call out bad advice wherever it hides boardrooms, break rooms, and even book clubs.

Katy Montgomery:

Enjoying this dumpster fire, like, subscribe, and check back every Thursday for new episodes. Want us to roast your favorite piece of nonsense? Email us at wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmail.com. Be sure to include your contact info. We're not psychic, just judgmental. And now back to Wrong Way Forward.

Announcer:

Roasting the worst advice ever. Welcome back to the Katy and Dustin.

Justin Joseph:

So thanks for joining us on our latest episode of Wrong Way Forward. This week we have covered um how friendships end and begin and what the vows of friendship are. And as part of that, because we've all been in this situation, we're gonna talk about ghosting, because that certainly can apply not only in friendships but in relationships. And for me, at any specific party, because I am one of these people who loves the Irish exit. You can call it ghosting, but I am not a fan of sitting and saying goodbye to 50 people. Whereas Josh, my husband, I literally give him a 10-minute warning because if I do it as we're leaving, he will want to go say about everybody and it makes me insane. So that's my definition of ghosting. Katy, why don't you talk about what yours is?

Katy Montgomery:

Well, I think of ghosting is you literally just go poof. I mean, the Irish exit, and I also learned from some of my um students from Spain, they call it a Spanish bomb. It just kind of goes off and goes poof. Um, I don't think of that as true ghosting because it doesn't mean that you're never going to engage with those people, that you're not gonna continue a relationship. I think ghosting is literally you just poof, you ghost out of sight, and there's no longer any interaction. There is no closure, there's no conversation, and it leaves the other party that's been ghosted kind of in a space of ambiguity. And it also leads the person who's been ghosted to just ask a lot of questions and to be completely honest, make up a lot of stories about why did you ghost me? You know, and those things can drive people insane. And the reason that I thought that this was so relevant is I want to tell, I have kind of two professional stories, but one that I think is really interesting. Yeah. Um, my brother hired um a nanny and someone who would do kind of light housekeeping, and that person wasn't even there a full two weeks.

Justin Joseph:

And set up how many kids does your brother have and all of that?

Katy Montgomery:

He has two kids, five and eight. They're fantastic, um, really interesting, high-energy kids. And he gets a call at work from their school saying no one's picked up the kids. And so goes into kind of a panic like, oh my gosh, is the nanny okay? What's happened? We've got an issue here. Fortunately, the kids were picked up, nothing happened. He gets home and waiting at the front desk are keys and then also um the parking pass.

Justin Joseph:

You are kidding me. So the nanny he hires a nanny, and one of her jobs was to pick up the children, and she did not, she ghosted.

Katy Montgomery:

She ghosted, and there were multiple texts, multiple phone calls. Are you okay? What happened? Is there an explanation based on your leaving um the keys and the parking pass? We're assuming you're not coming back, but again, there was never any, you know, kind of professional reason, discussion, or even just, you know, um, an explanation of I'm no longer going to be continuing in this employment. And that is ghosting in a professional setting.

Justin Joseph:

And that is almost criminal, I would think. I mean, that's crazy.

Katy Montgomery:

It's crazy, and it's really the wrong way forward. And I think we've all racked our brains, you know, the kids are fine. My brother and his wife are super resourceful and smart, they've already got a plan in action, but there's still this lingering question as why? Why did you do that? But also, do you not have the courage to kind of you know have a face-to-face conversation conversation to explain that you no longer wish to stay in the role? And I think it's a really kind of cowardly action. And I think it gets back to kind of set values. How do you hold yourself out professionally? How do you communicate and have awkward conversations? How do you give kind of real feedback? And it's incredibly important in the professional workplace so people can um manage their reputations, people can continue to provide growth and development opportunities, but also people need feedback, you know, as to what's kind of going on, and therefore they can make change and they can adapt. But this kind of ghosting, it leaves people just in this, you know, what is that called, Justin? We're both Catholics, purgatory. Purgatory.

Justin Joseph:

Yeah, a hundred percent. And uh, you know, firstly, I'm just shocked by that story. But secondly, it makes me wonder are there situations where ghosting may be acceptable? For I'm trying to think of some. I guess um, if a relationship was bad and you, you know, we talked about this in the in block A, if a relationship is bad and you're not sure how to end the friendship, is ghosting okay in that situation?

Katy Montgomery:

I mean, I think there has to be probably some situations, but I want to kind of give you another shocking story of just kind of professional ghosting. Yeah. Um, so my father passed away a little over two years ago. Um, there was his kind of almost lifelong professional accountant, um, was put on as executor of the estate. My brother and I, who both have legal training, joined as kind of co-executors. We had a very serious conversation. I think we know that um I am um very much just getting down to business and had a conversation with this person. Can you move forward? It was some complex paperwork. And I tend to be a little type A. I like a checklist, I like to know things are moving forward. I know this about a certain line of communication. And as the paperwork was moving forward to file certain federal, tax, state, and local documents that would literally hold my family um accountable, the accountant stopped responding. Your kid did not respond to texts, phone calls, emails. Um, and we ended up finding another accountant um who is amazing. So if anybody needs any recommendations, um, this is out of Birmingham, Alabama, and fantastic. And if anybody from Tupelo wants to drop me a private DM, I will let you know who you should not be using. Um, but he said in his 20 plus years of working as an accountant, he had never seen such poor behavior in his life. So completely ghosted by the accountant. Wow. Didn't have the nerve to say, this is beyond my capacity and my capability. I'm sorry, but I can't help you. I'd like to make a referral. Um, nobody fell on the sword, and I am coming away from this thinking, what a coward. And this is a grown ass adult man.

Justin Joseph:

So here's the I'm sorry, go ahead.

Katy Montgomery:

Yep.

Justin Joseph:

That's I was gonna here's the question that because it that firstly that's shocking, and not that matters how old was this man? Not that that's an excuse.

Katy Montgomery:

I mean, I would say at least 60.

Justin Joseph:

Oh, wow. And um, this comes back to the same thing about friendship. Did you take him on? Did you tell him he had failed you? Did you consider legal action? Did you consider filing a claim on his insurance? How did you handle it? Obviously, you've got a new accountant, but were you aggressive and taking it on? And should you be?

Katy Montgomery:

You know, there was only so much at a certain point, and I think people do get, and I I I I feel like I have dozens of these examples where when you are handling grief and there are so many moving pieces, you have to protect your energy and your strength and moving forward. Um, and it's one of these things that again, what he's done is beyond professional, and he's been a coward, but he has left us with all of these questions as to who would do this and why you would do this. And it really makes you question um humans and their values and their motivators and how they can wake up and actually put one foot in front of the other. I would be so absolutely ashamed and mortified. And so it's one of those just crazy things in life that it's like we have different value systems.

Justin Joseph:

And I know, but respectfully, I feel like that's a dodge to my question. Did you take him on? If if not, why not? And why wouldn't you?

Katy Montgomery:

I am not gonna go there, Justin, because I I'm not comfortable with legal action and that sort of stuff.

Justin Joseph:

Uh simply But we're not naming who he is. I'm just we're not naming who he is. I'm just wondering, in any situation, do you not think you I'm curious because of course you know me. I would have called him and let him have it, and I I would have left him a bad review.

Katy Montgomery:

Call him to let and we're gonna have to edit this. If you call him and let him have it, but he won't pick up the phone. What are you supposed to do? I think he literally would not pick up the phone. At one point, you know, I even called and his secretary answered and I said, This is out of control. Could you please? Here is the context. I think any person would have empathized with me. And I think he had he had advised his secretary to not answer the phone. I literally could not. The only thing that I could have done is leave DC, physically go to Tupelo, and camp out in front of his office and hope that he showed up. Though that is how I could have verbally told him that I was disappointed.

Justin Joseph:

Well, let me make sure I'm clear. That was not a critique. It was more of a question in general.

Katy Montgomery:

So I know it's not a critique, but and I'm I don't mean to get out of, but I'm serious, it's a heart attack. We can't go there. My my siblings will get so pissed.

Justin Joseph:

Yeah, no, no, I get it. So all right. Well, I think that that's a good way to wrap up this week's episode of Wrong Way Forward. Um, coming up, we're gonna still take on great advice that we don't think is so great, but advice nevertheless. Um, and we'll see you next week on Wrong Way Forward.

Katy Montgomery:

Yeah, and we would really love to hear from you. If you have any bad advice, if you've had an experience, please drop us an email at wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmail.com.

Justin Joseph:

All right, we'll see you next week. All right, that's a wrap on this week's episode of Wrong Way Forward. Remember, the only thing worse than taking bad advice is giving it.

Katy Montgomery:

If you've liked what you've heard, like, subscribe, or follow us wherever you stream podcasts. And if you've got a topic or need some advice, we'll probably regret giving, email us at WrongwayForwardPodcast at gmail.com.

Justin Joseph:

Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Wrong Way Forward.

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Justin Joseph

Host
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Katy Montgomery

Host