Wrong Way Forward

4. Love Stinks (Literally) and other Relationship Icks

• Katy Montgomery and Justin Joseph • Season 1 • Episode 4

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From tight white jeans and too much cologne to pocket watches and… frequent pooters—Justin and Katy dive into the world of relationship deal breakers. What gives you “the ick”? Can you overlook it if everything else about a person lines up, or are some icks simply non-negotiable?

In this episode, we break down a real New York Times advice column about a date gone wrong and use it as a launchpad to explore the deal breakers that make or break relationships. Along the way, we share personal stories (yes, including pocket-watch guy), debate whether standards soften as we age, and confess our own unshakable icks.

Later in the show, we pivot to the hot topic of “Nepo Babies.” Are they talentless beneficiaries of privilege, or unfairly maligned artists who just happened to have famous parents? We tackle the nuance, the backlash, and whether opportunity equals entitlement.

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Announcer:

She's Katy Montgomery, he's Justin Joseph. These best friends are serving subpoenas to bad advice weekly with Wrong Way Forward. The advice column reboot. You never knew you needed Sparks fly, and so does the hilarity. Now here's Katy and Justin.

Justin Joseph:

Hey everybody, welcome back to episode 4 of Wrong Way Forward. I'm Justin Joseph here, along with Katy Montgomery. We've covered a lot of territory in our first four episodes.

Katy Montgomery:

That's correct. And today I think we're going to deep dive into a kind of intense topic and something that can be kind of gnarly and that is kind of relationship deal breakers.

Justin Joseph:

A hundred percent. You know, I think this is an episode that, no matter where you are in the spectrum of life you've been in a relationship forever you are still looking for one- Right. This is an episode that will touch and a lot of people relate to.

Katy Montgomery:

Exactly, and so of course I'm going to start with this is going to be an official piece of advice. This is coming from the New York Times, so I'm going to put on my readers to make this kind of to read this. But this is part of social cues kind of to read this, but this is part of social cues. It is a kind of weekly part of the New York Times that gives kind of advice. So someone writes in and says I recently started dating a man who was funny and bright. His lifestyle preferences are aligned with mine. We both like splitting our time among New York City, the country and the beach.

Katy Montgomery:

That combo is hard to find these days. The problem on our third date he showed up wearing tight white jeans and cologne with gel in his hair. I appreciate that this may be his vibe, but it's not for me. It was also different from his low-key style. On our first two dates I managed to make it through the happy hour, but I've been sensitive to scent for as long as I can remember. Should I bring up this sensitivity with him or chalk it up to preference that another woman may like?

Justin Joseph:

Okay, so we're going to get to the advice, but let's stop right there and break this down.

Katy Montgomery:

Yes.

Justin Joseph:

How old? And this viewer does not give us her age. How old do we think this woman is? I'm thinking this has to be somebody, probably in their 30s at this point I'm thinking older as well, because she's had enough time to know what she wants, correct, um. But also she's very specific about what she wants, which I think is sort of cuts both ways and she's specific about knowing what gives her the ick which I think if anyone has that gift, it's you correct the ick is real and it's very hard to get past the ick is real.

Justin Joseph:

Okay, that's the name of this episode going forward. The ick is real.

Katy Montgomery:

The ick is real.

Justin Joseph:

yes, so let's dive into. So she wrote in and let's see what the advice columnist.

Katy Montgomery:

And so the advice says I'm confused. Even if you sort out the cologne and I believe you have the right to tell this man you're sensitive to fragrance and to ask him to come unsent at future meetings that still leaves the white jeans and hair gel. My impression from your letter is that all three are non-starters for you and, as much as we might like to, we don't have the right to micromanage the aesthetic choices of others. Now you don't mention your age or relationship experience, so I'm going to tread gently here. Your dating criteria seem a bit shallow to me. Being able to afford an apartment in the city, a country house and beach vacations is not a lifestyle preference, it is a socioeconomic condition, and wealth and appearances make poor foundations for good relationships in my experience.

Justin Joseph:

So shockingly. I think we're going to disagree on this because I really think this advice. I think you're going to agree that she can take those things out and she can be. She can have objections to them. I think you've reached a certain point where your objection criteria has to soften your thoughts.

Katy Montgomery:

I mean, I do, I mean I agree with that, but I do think that there's also something to be said that if you have a certain aesthetic and I think attraction is very important and I think if hair gel and tight white jeans and heavy cologne triggers and signifies something to you that's affiliated with something that gives you the ick or that you associate with a lot of negatives, it's very hard to get past that.

Justin Joseph:

Okay, that's fine. I think what's interesting is you and I discussed this when we were prepping the episode, and I think what I found interesting is something that I had not thought about is I think when you start dating, you're willing to take on some of the it Correct, and as you get older, then perhaps you're less willing to do that. Do you agree with that?

Katy Montgomery:

Agreed, and I think if you are 50 years old and you have particular connotations whether or not they are fair, accurate that are associated with a man in tight white jeans, gel and heavy cologne, it's very hard, if that's been ingrained in you for 50 plus years, to let those go overnight.

Justin Joseph:

Okay, but I mean, I agree, tight white jeans plus hair gel, plus cologne.

Katy Montgomery:

It's a lot.

Justin Joseph:

It's a lot. But would you take a man in tight white jeans without the cologne, without the hair gel, or one of the three I?

Katy Montgomery:

mean fantastic question and I'm terrified that the listeners are going to think that I'm a very superficial and shallow person, but I'm going to tell a story. So I dated a guy, we had a great time. I ended up going back to my ex-boyfriend and we had we continued kind of a long-term relationship, but then we connected. After that, said boyfriend and I broke up and I invited him to a fundraising event and I said it's suit and tie. Now he says to me I have a three-piece suit. And I immediately got very anxious. I'm like he's gonna wear a vest. Who wears a vest? And then I start to realize.

Justin Joseph:

And then he says it has a matching pocket watch okay, and if I can just stop you right here, it's so interesting to me that he felt like he needed to run his alpha by. He already knew that you had a high I don't think so.

Katy Montgomery:

I think he was very proud of his suit suit it was three pieces, it was brown pinstripe and it had a pocket watch and I think that is what.

Justin Joseph:

That's gross, correct. But anyone who knows you for five minutes, whether they're going to be dating you or your best friend, knows quickly that your, your standards are here and they need to run by things by agree or disagree.

Katy Montgomery:

No, I mean I disagree. And here's the thing, if you take that assumption and you play that out, he clearly didn't care enough, because if he thought I would care, he still wore a three-piece suit, suit with a pocket watch.

Justin Joseph:

Did you tell him not to wear that?

Katy Montgomery:

No, because I was at a stage in my dating life where I'm like don't be a bitch, be generous, don't make assumptions, it's not about what people wear, but the entire-.

Justin Joseph:

Should you make a mistake and not tell him? Should you have told the truth what people wear, but the entire? Should you make a mistake and not tell them? Should you have told the truth?

Katy Montgomery:

I think at that stage no, but I think the entire time it made me cringe. And the other day my brother mentioned oh, remember when that guy wore a pocket watch. And again, I'm very close to my siblings. So again, here I am. I'm 51, I'm an independent woman, but I still literally want to crawl under the table because I know, and again, I want to be bigger than that, I want to be a kind, serviceable person.

Justin Joseph:

But you're not. I mean those things are important to you, and when you say bigger than that, that's who you are.

Katy Montgomery:

Well, I mean, I aspire to not care about that kind of stuff.

Justin Joseph:

When have you ever not cared about that?

Katy Montgomery:

But I well, I didn't tell him to change, Do you remember?

Justin Joseph:

when you and I when you were in college and you go to zero-two parents and you would you would school give me a lessons manner on how to eat and how to?

Katy Montgomery:

And you thanked me for that later. You said it was one of the most instructive times of your life. It was this advice. I don't agree with the advice. I've tried that. I've tried to go beyond it. But if you've got the ick and you're finding certain things unattractive and you have heavy connotations with things that make you cringe, it's uncomfortable being your real self around someone when you're constantly just evaluating what someone's doing. And it doesn't mean you're a bad person.

Announcer:

It doesn't mean that.

Katy Montgomery:

You do have aesthetic, you know preferences, and why are we punishing people for aesthetic preferences?

Justin Joseph:

I don't think we are. I think what we're punishing is you. There are two things I find objectionable about your. Take on this, yes. The first is that you set not only him up for failure, you set yourself up for failure because you didn't just be honest and say you won't wear a pocket, and you should have told him not to wear a pocket.

Katy Montgomery:

I think I said why would you want to wear a pocket?

Justin Joseph:

You see, you got that. That should have been taken on. Absolutely not. You will not wear an effing pocket watch at dinner with my family.

Katy Montgomery:

It wasn't dinner with the family, it was a fundraiser.

Justin Joseph:

It's gross, I agree with you. A high egg factor. We could have figured everything out, it's just nasty, but you set yourself up for failure. Set him up for failure by not telling the truth.

Katy Montgomery:

I think that that's easier said than done when you are connecting with someone you know and it's still kind of new. I mean, I would like to ask you I mean we're talking about relationship deal breakers and what is fair and what is considered too superficial.

Justin Joseph:

Well, I think that that's all fair. I mean, I can think about someone who I thought was the love of my life, and so much that I would fly to his city probably five times and beg him to be my partner, and every time he's like stop coming here, it's not going to happen.

Katy Montgomery:

See that, to me that's a non-starter, because he didn't want to start it with well, we did, we.

Justin Joseph:

We started it and then he ended it, and then I kept flying back and saying, are you sure? And he kept saying, yeah, I'm sure, but I I think, on the impact there were so much about him, that would not be who he.

Katy Montgomery:

I would be with that person today one of them to see okay okay, so I just give me a second because I really I just puked in my mouth, what do you mean?

Justin Joseph:

like he was just very casual about pooping you have to tell them you're just like that one. No one is wearing that one.

Katy Montgomery:

Everybody knows that poo is the very kind and appropriate way to not call it an F-A-R-T. I hate the word F-A-R-T.

Justin Joseph:

I hate that word and I hate the P-word, the poo word.

Katy Montgomery:

Anyway, could you just answer the question. Did he poo a lot in front of you?

Justin Joseph:

He had no problem doing it in front of me.

Katy Montgomery:

And to me, me, that for me is high, high, eight factors worse than the stopwatch or pocket watch, pocket watch. So if he was so handsome, great career, really interesting family person, values matched up. But he just happened to be a frequent pooter a freaking pooter around me in my face.

Justin Joseph:

Um, yeah, so I think we're gonna. We're gonna head to break here, I think. On the other side, let's talk about the fact that, as you get older, does your ink factor decrease or does it increase because you're okay being alone.

Katy Montgomery:

We'll talk about it okay, makes sense. You've been listening to wrong way forward, where bad advice goes to die and then gets resurrected just so we can roast it again that's right, Katy.

Speaker 4:

Nobody's off limits not the gurus, not the influencers, and definitely not Oprah.

Katy Montgomery:

Sorry, Oprah.

Speaker 4:

If you're enjoying the chaos, hit like and subscribe and come back every Thursday for new episodes.

Katy Montgomery:

Have a new topic or some disastrously bad advice you want to dissect? Email wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmailcom. Include your contact info.

Speaker 4:

Now back to Wrong Way Forward.

Announcer:

Roasting the worst advice ever. Welcome back to the Katy and justin podcast and we're back.

Justin Joseph:

So justin before we went to the break, you posed a question, so let's revisit that I do want to revisit this because I have a good girlfriend who is in the dating pool. I know you are as well and I often wonder when you're young, you know you kind of are more choosy because you're young and you get to be, get get to be that way, I think you're in thirties or forties you're less choosy because you're trying to. You're at that age where you need to have children and you maybe are a little bit more open. Do you agree that as you get older, in your forties, fifties, where you're really okay being alone, that you really do be alone?

Katy Montgomery:

I mean, I think it's more nuanced than that, right, I think an it factor is an it factor and you can't control that right? I think an it factor 20 is the same as an it factor of 50 I mean, I think it evolves over time right in your exposure and and being able to possibly, I mean I think some of those it factors are based on kind of superficial norms that might have been disproven over time.

Justin Joseph:

And for you specifically, you have the same it factors when you were 25 as you do now.

Katy Montgomery:

I mean that's not fair because I haven't cataloged all my it factors.

Justin Joseph:

But I would say Are you sure you haven't? Because I feel like you have.

Katy Montgomery:

I appreciate that, but I'm a very busy person, Justin.

Justin Joseph:

But I feel like that's the same for all women. I think people know what they.

Katy Montgomery:

No, its factors are different. It you can't anticipate Now I can tell you on a man. For me, tight white jeans, hair gel and cologne has been consistent since I was probably, let's say, real interested in boys like age 12, and I'm almost 52.

Justin Joseph:

And none of the boys did. I mean, I agree, tight white jeans, although, yes, tie white jeans and cologne, I guess, as I say now, I don't agree with tie white jeans Jocks wears cologne, occasionally Cologne, it's heavy cologne. Yeah, but what was the third item? Hair gel, hair gel. Have you never made a silhouette hair gel? I mean, I'm sure I have.

Katy Montgomery:

But I was just, you know, I was raised down South Boys were washing go. They didn't use hair dryers, they don't use gel, like if you said what's mousse, They'd be like I don't know, do you eat it for dessert? Like I. Just so I'm just not used to that, though I, you know. To just kind of tell another story, I used to be in a wine club and this wine club started, you know, started, you know, kind of late twenties, early thirties, and at the very first meeting of the wine club everyone was single.

Katy Montgomery:

It's probably very telling, I'm the only person who's still single, you know this many years later, but someone. We played kind of a parlor game and they said you have 20 points and you have to allocate 20 points for your future partner among four categories, and it was looks, kindness, intelligence and humor. Okay, and, as you could imagine, the men were high on looks, the women were high on kind of intelligence and humor, and kindness kind of fell to the wayside yeah, that's interesting um, and not surprising, but and at that point in my age I was like look, if you're highly intelligent, there's a high likelihood you're probably smart.

Katy Montgomery:

And if you're smart you probably get the kindness, because you know if you're highly intelligent, there's a high likelihood you're probably smart. And if you're smart you probably get the kindness, because you know if you do X, you probably going to piss someone off until you're clever enough. Not the case. So I do think this is nuanced. I mean, I'm like if you get a heavy ick and it's an ick to where you think that you can't be yourself and you can't treat that person with love and kindness and respect, I think you kind of call it off. If you feel like you're always cringing around them, you're always having to compensate for them. You're always having to kind of explain why they're doing something. Because you find it uncomfortable or you don't like it. I think it's not good enough. But I do think if you can get past the ick and I think the question really comes to the crux of this is can she get over the ick?

Justin Joseph:

And let me ask you this can you coach through the ick? I think that you did not do with stopwatch man or pocket watch man. You didn't take the opportunity to say don't wear a vest, please. It makes me out you could. You were the queen of this. I love you, bud. Do not wear a pocket watch to the party. Burn your vests. And I forgot what the third thing was it was a suit suit.

Katy Montgomery:

I don't think that's like stripes I think it was kind of like the suit that you would think a little bit of bob and bob in my life a little bit.

Justin Joseph:

You don't remember that song. I feel like if you liked him, you'd call it a seersucker it was not a seersucker.

Katy Montgomery:

I can I can spot a seersucker about two miles away and I literally would run towards a seersucker about two miles away. And I literally would run towards a seersucker. I would run towards a seersucker.

Justin Joseph:

You didn't like it was a seersucker. If you liked it, it would have been a seersucker.

Katy Montgomery:

Oh my God, if it was a seersucker I'd be like. I feel, like my ring size is.

Justin Joseph:

I still, but I you know, kimberly, do you agree with me on this point? You have always had high standards. That is not something to apologize for, it's something to acknowledge, and do you-.

Katy Montgomery:

Hey, I'm going to be honest. I think probably the wrong way forward is, you know, and I think probably some listeners are going to be like, high standards are not white jeans, hair gel, and you know, you know high standards are. You want someone of integrity, you want someone who's committed to family. You want someone who's honest. You want someone you know who is, you know hardworking, and those are things that I want. But I also want to be highly attractive and I don't want to cringe if one of my brother refers to something from a boyfriend years ago and I immediately like changing the subject so fast because I start to get embarrassed.

Justin Joseph:

I just think it's interesting because you know I might, like I may, have it much easier to move into the dating world.

Katy Montgomery:

Well, I mean, and I just don't want us to forget, justin, that if anybody poops in front of you, it's completely over.

Justin Joseph:

That is a deal breaker. You should be out the door. And, yes, I don't care if you're a zoot suit or not, and whatever, a surf sucker or not. Yes, there we go All right, we're coming to the time of the show. We're going to look at our viewer emails from our last segment.

Katy Montgomery:

Why don't you take us in and tell us what we've got and what we? We talked about our you know beloved Oprah. Well, your beloved Oprah, and you know Oprah gave advice at a Stanford commencement speech that said your emotion should be your GPS. You should always follow what your emotions and I think you know. For me it was more of like look, you know, when emotions are taking over, you're losing kind of the logic, you're losing kind of the real facts and the data and you can kind of tell yourself stories that can send you away. And so we did hear from some readers and I'm sure Justin, I'm seeing you smirking- over here.

Justin Joseph:

One of the readers actually starts by Tom Quiddy and then does a quick turn and backhands me, so you'll like this one yeah please share. I don't always do shared emails that are critical of me, but, Katy, you tried to rewrite history saying you were always impressed by opera love that point. You do always do that. But justin taught you red-handed that factually incorrect button idea genius, please get it installed. So she thinks that you need one of those to buzz me correct, correct.

Katy Montgomery:

So let's see what I heard. So you were so right to call out Justin's story about lying at work. It's a perfect example of what you're talking about Letting emotional and personal desire take over. Do you think Justin's factually incorrect moments on the broadcast are just his emotional brain running wild? And how did you handle that? Yeah, I mean, they don't solve it for me money.

Justin Joseph:

Well, and how did you handle that? Yeah, I mean, they don't solve it for me just. Well, clement, this is becoming a trend line because you push it all the time and I'm factually and actually again. Another one of my emails says I love. This is touching. I love how justin shares heartfelt oprah story is true framed autographs, sneaking out of the prosecutor's office just to see her. And Katy's big contribution is telling us he needs he reads teleprompters when he's nervous Girl. He's living his best job of her life, don't it? And you're here trying to narrate like a jealous stage manager, calling me factually correct. Did your husband send that in? No, it doesn't say correct. Okay, let's see. I think.

Katy Montgomery:

I've got one more to share. It seems like Justin relies on his gut feeling a lot, even though you provided clear as an evidence that it's a flawed approach. How do you maintain a productive co-hosting relationship when your podcast partner dismisses your logical professional advice?

Justin Joseph:

Well, I disagree with that.

Katy Montgomery:

I need to, I need to address this reader. It's it's very difficult, it's very hard and I'm working on it.

Justin Joseph:

Well, let me also say I do actually think you have that's what I think you bring to the podcast. I think you are this, as, out of the many episodes we've done, this one I think you are mostly right on. Like I give you a 70-30 right on oh, my gosh, yeah. So usually we say we're going to disagree on this. I thought I did not agree on how you took on Oprah, but I did not disagree with how you took on her advice.

Katy Montgomery:

Well, if Oprah ever calls.

Justin Joseph:

I'll let you sit next to her. Here's my final one. Let's be real. Justin shows up with quotes, data and a killer Oprah backstory. Katy shows up with you look old in a suit and some elephant fan fiction. Sorry, but this isn a National Geographic, it's a podcast. Give me justice. Check your logic over your trust, your emotional elephant. Any day of the week that person had it for you.

Katy Montgomery:

I mean, they clearly hate my guts, but I think it's so irrational that I really don't care.

Justin Joseph:

All right. Well, when we come back, you know, in segment three, we always do our. Let's talk about this. Yes, you want to give a preview of what we're talking about this week.

Katy Montgomery:

So let's talk about. This is going to be kind of a topic again. You know, justin, and I try not to talk about this ahead of time, so, but my guess is we're not going to agree, we're going to talk about NetVote maybe. So we'll be back in just a second.

Speaker 4:

Thanks for streaming Wrong Way Forward the weekly reminder that advice is usually free. For a reason we call out bad advice wherever it hides boardrooms, break rooms and even book clubs.

Katy Montgomery:

Enjoying this dumpster fire Like subscribe and check back every Thursday for new episodes. Want us to roast your favorite piece of nonsense? Email us at wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmailcom. Be sure to include your contact info. We're not psychic, just judgmental. And now back to Wrong Way Forward.

Announcer:

Roasting the worst advice ever. Welcome back to the Katy and Justin podcast.

Justin Joseph:

All right. So welcome back to segment three, where we talk about can we talk about it? This is a segment that, for whatever reason had it, could be a hot topic. It could be something that you saw or I saw, that sparked something that makes you want to comment. This week we're talking about nepo babies. It's been a topic that's been on a lot of people's minds for some time.

Katy Montgomery:

It has been, it has been. And I mean my general kind of take on this is I think there's some really amazing nepo babies out there. Oh, I think Jamie Lee Curtis no-transcript.

Justin Joseph:

Think that's what we're talking about.

Katy Montgomery:

But I think I mean again, neither one of those are parents. But you know, if I had a child and you know, and I would want them to have, you know, really the drive and the motivation to kind of do what they needed to do, but if I had access to an internship or if I could give my nieces or nephews, you know, feedback on you know, I've worked at Georgetown and see a lot of Johns Hopkins If I could give them insight into kind of what they were looking for for future applicants, I would share that. So I think that's a really hard line and a boundary that we can't kind of clearly draw and I think if we're seeing people take these roles and really excel, it's not fair for them to be burdened by the you're a NEPA baby Right.

Justin Joseph:

And this is your email. When we talked about that we were going to do this. Someone said Justin and Katy. I agree with your take on NEPA babies, but Katy clearly is from an affluent upbringing.

Katy Montgomery:

Isn't that the same thing? How do you feel about that?

Justin Joseph:

Well, I I can tell this person that I've had a job since I was, but you had a leg up. I think that's her point is that you had came from an affluent family.

Katy Montgomery:

I would not say affluent, I would say highly educated, that really promoted education.

Justin Joseph:

Isn't that enough of a leg up? Yeah.

Katy Montgomery:

And I don't think that. I think that it would be very odd for a parent to not be actively engaged. And you know, I think I read in a study that they said one of the greater, greatest indicators of success is if your child goes to summer camp like sleep away summer camp. And it makes sense, right, you can afford sleep away summer camp. You makes sense, right, you can afford sleep away summer camp. You're a certain socioeconomic status with that Tom's education, money, opportunity. So you know, what do people expect people to do? Like step back and not give kind of those children opportunities. And, to be completely honest, if my preference would be a nepo baby over like a Kardashian who made a sex tape and does cheap reality TV, you know, if I had my choice, I mean, I think the ultimate question is, is there talent there?

Justin Joseph:

Number one. But I think we can both agree that we were given sort of a leg up just because of that.

Katy Montgomery:

A hundred percent.

Justin Joseph:

We were made to go to college. That alone is a step up over a lot of the population. And so you know, and for a nepo baby, there are some out there and I, you know, I watched gilda day. She has a nepo baby of a very famous austria winning actress and I thought she was terrible in seasons one through I mean I'll just say her, and she's meryl streep's daughter.

Justin Joseph:

And I thought she, she, was terrible in seasons one through three, but by season four she found herself. Is she meryl streep? No, will she ever be Meryl Streep? No, but that bar is high. But there are plenty of Nepo babies that probably shouldn't have gotten.

Katy Montgomery:

Yeah, but I mean I think that there's also Nepo babies, that I don't want people to take away the fact that they are fantastic. And I look at like I don't know if anyone here has been watching the Pit on HBO, but I think it's absolutely fantastic, the pit on HBO, but I think it's absolutely fantastic. And Bryan Cranston, who's a fantastic actor known for Breaking Bad, his daughter Taylor's on that role on that series and she's absolutely fantastic. And it made me a little sad when she became attached to her dad, because I knew people would say she only got it because of that, when in all reality she had a different last name and, to be completely honest, I couldn't have picked her out as a lineup as her a different last name and, to be completely honest, I couldn't picture out as a lineup as her but her casting was strong.

Katy Montgomery:

I mean maybe who knows, but she's really fantastic in the role well, I think that that's fine.

Justin Joseph:

So if you had to give a, a letter grade, or a number grade in terms of your being okay with devil babies, you would say what?

Katy Montgomery:

I mean, I would say, you know a scale of one to ten, you know I would probably give it a six or seven, you know?

Justin Joseph:

yeah, I'm okay with it and I would definitely be underneath that. I'd be more against it than I am, and part of it's just because I'm someone who's worked hard, as you have, and so I don't compete in a fair playing field, and it bothers me when someone gets something, an advantage that I can't have and I can't compete in. I could never have a.

Katy Montgomery:

Yeah, but I mean you were born in America as a white male, I mean you already had advantage. So I think and that's the thing that's a problem is assigning someone and slapping on Nepo baby takes away all of the nuance and all of the other advantages that all other people have doesn't also slapping on you were born and why I may have did the same thing I mean yes, but those are those still that are in our society are considered advantages.

Katy Montgomery:

That would you. It will take you off the first base and get you closer to home run I don't disagree at all.

Justin Joseph:

And you know, in the end, even if you're a nepo baby and you're put on a good movie or whatever, you still have to prove you still have to.

Katy Montgomery:

And let's be honest, if you fail as an Epo baby, the fall is much more intense and much more trauma related. Because when you fail, it is front cover, page six, National Enquirer, people magazine, people magazine, entertainment tonight. So you don't fail quietly, you fail in the public eye.

Justin Joseph:

It's a bigger fault yes, correct, and there's some classic. There's some big examples of nevo babies that have had, you know, twice the spotlight because of them and I'm trying to think of anything that comes to mind right now, but there have been some classic examples of nevo babies um, the woman who got her kids into college, lori well she cheated, but her children were at that point successful on their own because of her name, I think they had fashion lines or whatever they had.

Katy Montgomery:

But when she failed, or when they all failed, it was a big false and now anybody Googles those kids, they're going to know that they were part of a cheating college scandal. Yes, 100%.

Justin Joseph:

I think it's an interesting conversation. It's interesting that there's been on everybody's mind so much like there. People have strong opinions on this right.

Katy Montgomery:

You know, whatever side you come down and I think it comes back to what is this podcast about and is the wrong way forward. What is the right way forward if you have a child and let's let's narrow this down to hollywood you're from hollywood, you have a child who's incredibly interested in hollywood. What do you do?

Justin Joseph:

yeah, and I might. This brings back to the story. I was john. My brother's a very, very smart person. He's in medicine. For those of you don't know, that's the. You know you have to have a certain iq to get into that program. You have to test it genius and so yes, and so when I was young, in second, my brother immediately tested into gifted and talented and my mother was literally dragging me by the shirt up to the principal's office Once a year, say test Justin. And they were like he's not gifted and talented, stop bringing it up.

Katy Montgomery:

I was in talented and gifted.

Justin Joseph:

But the point is is like she was trying to give me a leg up that I didn't deserve and I didn't get.

Katy Montgomery:

And it probably felt like not amazing.

Justin Joseph:

Yeah, it's traumatic Telling a story what 51 years later, I could really remember, like in the back of my mind. I heard him he's not so and yes, no, I was not so anyway.

Katy Montgomery:

But? But when we talk about kind of wrong way forward, right, let's try to flip it before we sign off today. What is the right way forward for NEPA babies?

Justin Joseph:

Or for a parent who was trying to get their children to that job.

Katy Montgomery:

Yes, I love that and any parent will. It would be odd if you weren't.

Justin Joseph:

Yeah, and you want that kind of parent right? I love that my mother was in my corner and I. You know, if I had children and I'm sure if you did too we would be doing the same thing. So the right way forward is to push and push and push to get your children the advantage they deserve.

Katy Montgomery:

I think maybe the wrong way forward is when you try and take advantage of your name or your position to get that done, and I think it's. I think probably the wrong way forward is having your children thinking they're entitled to it. Probably the wrong way forward is having your children thinking they're entitled to it, but maybe opening a door, but really sending out the message that hard work, education, perseverance, you know, and really honing one's craft is what's going to be kind of in the long run success A hundred percent.

Justin Joseph:

So our next episode we're going to talk about one of our favorite topics pet peeves. Do you have some ideas? Please email us. Yes.

Katy Montgomery:

It's at the wrong way forward. Podcast at gmailcom. And again we'd like to remind everyone we really appreciate all our listeners. Please follow us on our social media accounts. We'll share those at the end of this episode. But also, if you enjoy our podcast, make sure to follow us and you can always leave a great review. Thanks so much. We enjoyed chatting with y'all today.

Justin Joseph:

We'll see you next week.

Speaker 4:

All right, that's a wrap on this week's episode of Wrong Way Forward. Remember, the only thing worse than taking bad advice is giving it.

Katy Montgomery:

If you've liked what you've heard, like subscribe or follow us wherever you stream podcast, and if you've got a topic or need some advice, we'll probably regret giving email us at wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmailcom.

Speaker 4:

Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Wrong Way Forward.

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Justin Joseph

Host
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Katy Montgomery

Host